Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:00:27 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Begin With Short Questions for Paper 8 To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal Re: SHORT QUESTIONS FOR PAPER 8 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Friday, March 6 During the next 24 hours you may send SHORT QUESTIONS about Paper 8 - I.O.N.S. - Innovative Options and New Solutions: A CD-Rom-based Chemical Technology Curriculum Supplement by John Kemkel, Julie Grundman, Bradette Hemmerling, Tanya Johnson and Paul Kelter to the authors and the conference participants. SHORT QUESTIONS are sent to clarify aspects of the paper, obtain more information from the authors and/or conference participants and help to promote subsequent discussion. Answers to SHORT QUESTIONS will be sent at the beginning of the discussion on Monday, March 9. DISCUSSION of Paper 8 will begin on Monday, March 9 and continue ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ through Thursday, March 12. The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ The final version is dated 2-26-98. This appears at the beginning of the ^^^^^^^ article just above ABOUT THE AUTHORS. Short Questions should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 8 - OP: Role of Undergraduate and Faculty Developers" These messages will be received by the author AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To send comments or questions privately to the author of the paper, send your message to the author's e-mail address given in the paper. Reports of typographical errors, spelling or grammatical errors should be sent directly to the author and not to CHEMCONF. [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:14:26 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 8 DR: Some Short Questions Some Short Questions for Paper 8 1. In your paper (Section II) you state that "experienced chemical technicians added their own insights on the proper direction of the chemical technician curriculum". In Section IV you state: "In order to construct the application problems, research was conducted to find chemically correct and reasonable industrial and environmental problems." a. How was this research conducted? b. Were experienced chemical technicians consulted during the development of these problems? c. Were non-technician industrial chemists and managers consulted during the development of these problems? 2. You state: "The students themselves have recently completed similar courses and have an understanding of the difficult aspects of the material. . . . The group . . are some of the top students at the University of Nebraska . . . They are a lot brighter than their faculty advisors." From the biographical information which you provided some of these students have GPAs in excess of 3.95! I wonder if these students will be able to identify where mediocre or poor students will have difficulties. Wouldn't the faculty with much more experience with students and the subject matter better be able to identify problem areas? I suppose it depends on how perceptive the students and faculty are. 3. Field Testing (Section VII) You mention that field testing is presently in progress. I presume this primarily involves the students in the chemical technician classes. a. Are you planning to ask experienced chemical technicians to evaluate the CD-ROM materials? b. Are you planning to ask non-technician industrial chemists and managers to evaluate the CD-ROM materials? 4. Laboratory manual You mention in Section II that a new laboratory manual is being developed for the first-year chemistry course. a. What sort of experiments will the students perform? b. Will any of these experiments be like those considered in the CD-ROM materials? Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY ROSEN2@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 11:51:06 +0000 From: pankuch Subject: Re: CHEMCONF Digest - 5 Mar 1998 to 6 Mar 1998 A few questions on Paper 8 >The biggest change for the > upcoming summer (other than upgrading software) will be to focus on > videos rather than animations. Drawing animations is time consuming > under the best of circumstances. A detailed animation can take a > student several days. An excellent video can take 20 minutes plus a bit > of editing time. Summer production time with students time is precious. Do you have some examples we could look at of videos and animations. How would you do a video of chemical bonding (abstract), or gas laws( more concrete)? Do you have any general suggestions for when you would use videos or decide instead to use animations? What type of equipment do you use for making videos? Thanks, Brian Pankuch [Part 2.2, "Card for brian pankuch" Text/X-VCARD 12 lines] [Unable to print this part] [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 11:47:29 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: CHEMCONF Digest - 5 Mar 1998 to 6 Mar 1998 pankuch wrote: > A few questions on Paper 8 > >The biggest change for the > > upcoming summer (other than upgrading software) will be to > focus on > > videos rather than animations. Drawing animations is time > consuming > > under the best of circumstances. A detailed animation can > take a > > student several days. An excellent video can take 20 > minutes plus a > bit > > of editing time. Summer production time with students time > is > precious. > > Do you have some examples we could look at of videos and animations. This is the difficulty using the Web. I could post a couple, but the download timewould be substantial. I will pop a couple in if you insist. I suggest a better option, below. I will say, however, that the animations are done via Director 6 and the videos are taken with a regular camcorder. Ours is your generic Best Buy "Sharp" unit that cost $600 last year. The videos are then edited via Premier. Several other packages are available and virtually all video aqcuisition cards come with some sort of editor that is at least satisfactory (they didn't used to be). Our advice: Spend as much as you can afford on a video capture board. Cheap boards give lousy results that upset end users. Fine boards give fine results that are appreciated. A top-notch borad can cost many thousands. But a fine board can be had for between $1000 and $2000. > How > would you do a video of chemical bonding (abstract), or gas laws( > more > concrete)? Jack Kotz does a fine job of this type of stuff in his Saunders CD-Rom. Their sales reps are delighted (!) to send you copies. However, I don't want to suggest that this is the only excellent source - all kinds of folks are doing nifty stuff on this. We are considering a split adoption next year - we currently use Brown, LeMay and Bursten (Zumdahl was a real close 2nd and all the major textbooks are generally quite fine, in my opinion..). Our students are quite satisfied with the book. But the company's CD-Rom is not good. So we are exploring using B/L/B with the Kotz CD supplement - no final decision has been made yet. > Do you have any general suggestions for when you would use videos > or decide instead to use animations? As you suggest, animations are at their most powerful when the goal is to help students visualizechemistry at the molecular level. Videos are most powerful as a way of reminding us that teaching and learning are human activities that ought to involve people. Video of people describing things is not as good as an interactive classroom. But, for me, it is preferable to a lack of humanity Thanks, > Brian Pankuch You're welcome!! Paul and the folks______________________ Paul Kelter Associate Professor of Chemistry University of Nebraska - Lincoln Lincoln, NE 68588-0304 402-472-3512 > > [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:43:17 -0500 From: Bill Vining Subject: Re: CHEMCONF Digest - 5 Mar 1998 to 6 Mar 1998 Regarding the discussion on creating media, both animated sequences as well as videos, Paul Kelter wrote: > Jack Kotz does a fine job of this type of stuff in his Saunders CD-Rom. > Their sales > reps are delighted (!) to send you copies. However, I don't want to > suggest that this > is the only excellent source - all kinds of folks are doing nifty stuff > on this. A lot goes into making a video to which students will pay attention. I've found that people with training in photography and in design are far better at judging what will and what will not work for students. When we made the Suanders CD, much of the educational quality came about because of input by nonchemists. We chemists are good at teaching chemistry, but don't really know how to make a voice over blend with an on screen visual. My advice is to work with people who do have this training. My software development group here at UMass is now about half-staffed with four full time nonchemists. We could not get by without that expertise in house. That being said, we all work at colleges and universities and much of the hands-on work CAN be done by chemists, including undergrads, if they get appropriate help (and they love it!). We have found that with a working knowledge of Photoshop and AfterEffects, an student can make high quality animations in a period of a day or so. Feel free to download a couple of our program sets at our web site for an idea. Both Chemland and Liquid Chromatography have substantial media elements (both are Windows only). Photography is about 90% lighting and 10% camera work. Having someone who can teach the basics of lighting will do a world of good. It's particularly difficult for chemistry because all that glassware reflects both the lights and the camera and the people milling around. It's also transparent, and takes some effort to get to show up. We have found that while Director is good for heavily media-based projects, Visual Basic (with occasional C subroutines) is much easier to use for things involving lots of code and simulation-driven work. The downside is that it is Windows only. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Bill Vining Associate Professor of Chemical Education and Director of General Chemistry Lederle Graduate Research Tower University of Massachusetts Amherst, MA 01003 413-545-2352 Fax: 413-545-5410 http://soulcatcher.chem.umass.edu [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:00:03 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 8 - Begin Discussion To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU Re: BEGIN DISCUSSION OF PAPER 8 It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Monday, March 9. The next 96 hours will be devoted to discussion of Paper 8 - I.O.N.S. - Innovative Options and New Solutions: A CD-Rom-based Chemical Technology Curriculum Supplement by John Kemkel, Julie Grundman, Bradette Hemmerling, Tanya Johnson and Paul Kelter The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ Messages should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include: the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 8 - OP: Role of Undergraduate and Faculty Developers" These messages will be received by the authors AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Appropriately labelled subject lines will be useful in sorting out the various discussion threads. 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To resume receipt of messages, send the message: SET CHEMCONF MAIL to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU Signing Off ^^^^^^^^^^^ In the event you wish to sign off CHEMCONF, please send the one line message: SIGNOFF CHEMCONF to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU Note that each of the above commands is sent to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD and NOT CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU --------------------------------------- SCHEDULE ^^^^^^^^ March 9 to 12 - Discussion of Paper 8 March 13 to 19 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 9 March 20 to 26 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 10 April 10 to 16 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 11 April 17 to 23 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 12 April 24 to May 15 - Evaluation and Discussion of Selected Topics If you need HELP, please send an e-mail message to: Tom O'Haver at to2@umail.umd.edu and NOT TO CHEMCONF ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ======================================================================= [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 08:03:18 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: Paper 8 DR: Some Short Questions Donald Rosenthal wrote: And Paul Answers: > Some Short Questions for Paper 8 > > 1. In your paper (Section II) you state that "experienced chemical > technicians added their own insights on the proper direction of > the chemical technician curriculum". In Section IV you state: > "In order to construct the application problems, research was > conducted to find chemically correct and reasonable industrial > and environmental problems." > > a. How was this research conducted? We had discussions with industry folks (chem techs), used a number ofbooks that deal with the chemical industry, such as "Shreve's Chemical Process Industry" by Austin (McGraw-Hill) surfed the Web for industry sights and looked in the primary and secondary literature. > 2. You state: "The students themselves have recently completed > similar courses and have an understanding of the difficult > aspects of the material. . . . The group . . are some of the > top students at the University of Nebraska . . . They are a > lot brighter than their faculty advisors." From the biographical > information which you provided some of these students have GPAs > in excess of 3.95! I wonder if these students will be able to > identify where mediocre or poor students will have difficulties. > > Wouldn't the faculty with much more experience with students and > the subject matter better be able to identify problem areas? The nature of the curriculum is different, but not radically so, from the"mainstream" gen chem curriculum. The difficulties that the students will have will not differ drastically from those that bedevil our mainstream students - this largely deals with the nature of problem solving and math. Also, Tanya, Julie and Bradette have each been Supplemental Instruction leaders and/or gen chem TA's in our department for several semesters. > 3. Field Testing (Section VII) > You mention that field testing is presently in progress. > I presume this primarily involves the students in the chemical > technician classes. Yeah. > a. Are you planning to ask experienced chemical technicians to > evaluate the CD-ROM materials? Yeah. This is vital. > b. Are you planning to ask non-technician industrial chemists and > managers > to evaluate the CD-ROM materials? Yeah as well. > 4. Laboratory manual > You mention in Section II that a new laboratory manual is being > developed for the first-year chemistry course. > > a. What sort of experiments will the students perform? This one is for Kenkel....John, are you making progress on digging outof your 43 cm of snow? (John lives in a rural area a few miles outside of the city....) > b. Will any of these experiments be like those considered in the > CD-ROM materials? Absolutely. Paul ____________ Paul Kelter Associate Professor of Chemistry University of Nebraska - Lincoln Lincoln, NE 68588-0304 > > > Donald Rosenthal > Clarkson University > Potsdam NY > ROSEN2@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 09:56:15 EST From: Jkenkel Subject: paper 8 DR This is in response to Don Rosenthal's third question regarding field testing. Yes, the field testing targets community college students who are in chemistry technician programs. A group of experienced chemical technicians and industrial chemists did get a glimpse of the CD at the DuPont Conference mentioned in Section II of the paper. I am presenting the concept at the Division of Chemical Technicians (TECH) general chemistry symposium Monday morning of the Dallas ACS meeting. In addition, there are 8-9 industrial representatives, both technicians and chemists, reviewing the materials first-hand. We expect to pump this latter group for feedback before the work on the CD resumes this summer. So far, most of the feedback regarding educational value is positive. There have been some complaints about technical difficulties, but I expect these will be ironed out this summer. I am trying to get more concrete feedback from this group this week, so stay tuned. John Kenkel [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 10:20:02 EST From: Jkenkel Subject: paper 8 DR This is in response to Don Rosenthal's 4th question. I am excited to tell you about our plans for the laboratory manual for the course. We have written 8 new laboratory activities all of which utilize the I.O.N.S. concept. This means that the student works in the laboratory as an employee of the I.O.N.S. Corporation performing the laboratory work needed to solve a problem that a client brings the the Corporation. The student is presented with written memos from the CEO Claire Hemistry, and from fictional industrial and academic consultants, describing the problem and providing background, such as the standard operating procedure (SOP) and theoretical concepts, etc. An example is a problem brought to I.O.N.S. by a company that manufactures windshield washer fluid. Customers have complained that the fluid has been less effective cleaning the insects off the windshield. The fluids company provides I.O.N.S. with samples of the fluid manufactured over a ten day period. The technician (student) is given a SOP to measure specific gravity and proceeds to perform the experiment. The technician gathers the data, keeps a notebook, plots a control chart, determines whether any of the samples are bad, and writes a report to the client. Other lab activities include measuring the zinc coating on samples of galvanized steel that failed for the client, analyzing samples of antifreeze/water mixtures that failed to protect some truck engines for a city in northern Minnesota, analyzing milk samples that are purported to have a high level of sodium, and identifying samples of organic liquids that a client's technician forgot to label. In addition to these, labs have been written that Dr. Hemistry wants the technician to do first in order to orient the new employee to the concept of analysis. These include identification of white solids found in and around the home and identification of dissolved cations and anions. Dr. Hemistry asks the "new" technician to perform a preliminary exercise and use available information sources (Internet, Merck Index CD-ROM, Handbook of Chemistry and Physis, etc.) to seek specific information about ingredients in familiar consumer products. These eight activities are now available for review if anyone would like to see them. They will be field tested in the fall. If anyone is interested, please contact me. John Kenkel [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:52:00 EST From: to2 Subject: Paper 8, TOH: Video Content This is a very ambitious and impressive project. I'm not at all sure I could get away with using our top undergraduates on such a project. Could the authors describe some examples of the content of the video clips captured by the student producers - e.g. talking heads, acted skits, laboratory procedures, field sites, etc? Also, what is the typical length (time) and size (width and height in pixels) of the video clips? Tom -------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry and Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation The University of Maryland at College Park to2@umail.umd.edu http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:46:33 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: Paper 8, TOH: Video Content to2 wrote: > This is a very ambitious and impressive project. I'm nit > at all sure I could get away with using our top undergraduates > on such a project. > > Could the authors describe some examples of the content of > the video clips captured by the student producers - e.g. > talking heads, acted skits, laboratory procedures, field sites, etc? > > Also, what is the typical length (time) and size (width and > height in pixels) of the video clips? > > Tom Tom et al; Your are right - it is quite ambitious, especially considering that for all practical purposes, our undergrads can only devote about 3.5 summer months to the project. Also, the budget is relatively low compared to many chemistry CD products on the market. It was pointed out in previous at least 2 previous papers in this conference that our best undergrads are better than most of our grad students. I absolutely agree. The disadvantage is merely one of availability. I will have Julie and Tanya pop a copule of video segments on to the computer today. In general, they are less than 30 seconds long, showing mostly reactions and such. We will significantly expand their use as we complete the prototype - we will use more footage of people. We were worried about space last summer. This is only a modest concern now. Paul _________________________ Paul Kelter Associate Professor of Chemistry University of Nebraska - Lincoln 402-472-3512 [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:59:24 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Video on the way Conference group, A VERY LARGE video file is on its way to the conference group, as requested this morning by Tom O'Haver, and forwarded to me by Julie Grundman. If you don't want to open/view it, please just delete the next message called "videos - VERY Large" Paul __________________ Paul Kelter Associate Professor of Chemistry UNL [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:44:20 -0800 From: John V Kenkel Subject: paper 8 Hi everyone, I indicated in my email on Monday, in response to Don Rosenthal's question, that I was attempting to get concrete feedback from industry reviewers on the Prototype I.O.N.S. CD this week and asked you to stay tuned. Well, I have heard from four individuals. Here are their comments, both good and bad: FIRST REVIEWER: The role of the technician was not clearly described ... technicians would make the measurements, calculate the results and describe the oucomes to the researcher and consultant. The effort does reflect the knowledge standards, but does not effectively relate to the skills required by technicians. I would like to see more integration (of lab and lecture). SECOND REVIEWER: The idea of supplementary software is solid and worthwhile. However, I was disapointed in the interactive sections of this material. I applaud your efforts to include real-world examples with input from various sources. The format is such that the students have to remember too much as they go through it. I like what you are trying to do and the problem solving-solving elements, but the delivery method is weak. THIRD REVIEWER: I really liked it. I think it will have a particular appeal to students who are just beginning in the science field. The scenarios used were fun and entertaining while getting the scientific message across to me. Keep up the good work ... I think it's going to help a number of budding scientists. FOURTH REVIEWER (who has special insights into industry protocols but does not work in industry): It is agonizingly slow. A university professor and an industrial consultant of unidentified level are key players. There is no mention of technicians. Why not have the students select the sites for samples and distinguish between good and bad samples in the field? Why not have the students address the issues of sample preparation? Why not have the students operate the laboratory equipment by simulation? Why not have the students judge the quality of their spectral results and seek to identify why certain poor results are obtained. I very much appreciate (your) work ... However, I would like to see that your efforts more closely address their (technician's) unique educational needs and issues that provide some status to the technicians. END OF REVIEWS These kinds of comments are very important to us. I invite any conference registrants who have seen the CD to send comments. What we have is a prototype and we intend to utilize reviewer comments to make it an outstanding product. I would also like to again say "thanks" to the NSF for their continued support. John Kenkel [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:33:19 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: paper 8 Hi Johnny, My goodness, those sounded "not so good." Sorry you couldn't have included some of the other reviews that were more positive. Ugggh. PK [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:55:31 -0800 From: John V Kenkel Subject: Re: paper 8 In response to Paul, yes we have indeed received some very good reviews from 2-year college teachers. I shall compile these and distribute hopefully yet this afternoon. John Kenkel [ Part 6: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 11:12:16 -0500 From: DALE BUCK Subject: Paper 8 Comments that IONS content was great but tech glitches seem to be correct. Most of my problem with it stem from my shortcomings with the dreaded "PC". Can we hope for a MAC version? We'll be glad to try the labs, John. Send them or bring with you to Texas. Hope you've all dug out by now. See you in Hurst. Dale Buck Cape Fear Community College Wilmington, NC dbuck@capefear.cc.nc.us - or - kmtkkr.wilmington.net [ Part 7: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 18:36:43 -0500 From: Carol White Subject: Paper 8-CW:Review of I.O.N.S. CD I found the CD to be very interesting. Certainly the student is placed right away into a situation that he/she can relate to. The scenarios are fun and the student must decide what information is needed and how to use that information. It requires the student to internalize and apply concepts. I really like the "real-world" aspect of it (however, some of the names are a bit too "cute"). The problems I saw addressed by the reviews you posted seem to be due to the CD development, speed, etc. Those are things that you can work out. I thought the role of the technician was fairly clear, but then I teach in a chemical technology program and work with technical skills all of the time. You can easily adjust the CD to give more emphasis to the role of technicians and their interactions with other professionals. I like your basic ideas. [ Part 8: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:49:10 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: Paper 8-CW:Review of I.O.N.S. CD xo. :-) [ Part 9: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 20:52:08 -0600 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: Paper 8-CW:Review of I.O.N.S. CD Carol et al; John and I appreciate your comments (hence my recent apprectiation). The CD has been a difficult, educational and worthwhile project. And it is a prototype. The bulk of the 1998 summer will be spent dealing with concepts of speed, ease of use, etc. But the key idea in any educational product is the curriculum that is behind it. This is why I appreciate your comments. The ease of use can be dealt with. The curriculum is a more fundamental issue which defines, ultimately, whether or not a product deserves serious consideration. This is what we are working toward with the IONS project. Best to you and all the conferees, Paul _________