[ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:04:38 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 7 - Begin Short Question Period To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal Re: SHORT QUESTIONS FOR PAPER 7 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Friday, February 27. During the next 24 hours you may send SHORT QUESTIONS about Paper 7 - TEACHING FORENSIC ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY by William E. Brewer, Stephen J. Lambert, Stephen L. Morgan and Scott R. Goode to the authors and the conference participants. SHORT QUESTIONS are sent to clarify aspects of the paper, obtain more information from the authors and/or conference participants and help to promote subsequent discussion. Answers to SHORT QUESTIONS will be sent at the beginning of the discussion on Monday, March 2. DISCUSSION of Paper 7 will begin on Monday, March 2 and continue ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ through Thursday, March 5. The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ Short Questions should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 7 - MN: Required Accuracy of the Analytical Methods" These messages will be received by the author AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To send comments or questions privately to the author of the paper, send your message to the author's e-mail address given in the paper. Reports of typographical errors, spelling or grammatical errors should be sent directly to the author and not to CHEMCONF. [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:24:03 CST From: Anne T Sherren Subject: Re: Paper 7 - Begin Short Question Period I have a question on this paper. Do you have a laboratory with this course. I have done lecture only Forensic Chemistry Courses. I was wondering if you had labs or field trips. Anne Sherren, ats@noctrl.edu ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Paper 7 - Begin Short Question Period Author: Conferences on Chemistry Research and Education at internet Date: 2/27/98 7:30 AM To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal Re: SHORT QUESTIONS FOR PAPER 7 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Friday, February 27. During the next 24 hours you may send SHORT QUESTIONS about Paper 7 - TEACHING FORENSIC ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY by William E. Brewer, Stephen J. Lambert, Stephen L. Morgan and Scott R. Goode to the authors and the conference participants. SHORT QUESTIONS are sent to clarify aspects of the paper, obtain more information from the authors and/or conference participants and help to promote subsequent discussion. Answers to SHORT QUESTIONS will be sent at the beginning of the discussion on Monday, March 2. DISCUSSION of Paper 7 will begin on Monday, March 2 and continue ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^ through Thursday, March 5. The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ Short Questions should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 7 - MN: Required Accuracy of the Analytical Methods" These messages will be received by the author AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To send comments or questions privately to the author of the paper, send your message to the author's e-mail address given in the paper. Reports of typographical errors, spelling or grammatical errors should be sent directly to the author and not to CHEMCONF. [ Part 6: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 27 Feb 1998 15:58:56 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 7 - DR: Some Short Questions Some Short Questions for Paper 7 1. If a student was intereste in pursuing a career in Forensic Chemistry, this course might serve as an introduction to the subject. a. Are there many opportunities in forensic chemistry for aspiring chemistry students? b. Are there graduate programs in Forensic Chemistry? 2. According to your paper one year of general chemistry, one year of organic chemistry and one semester of quantitative analysis were prerequisites for the course. a. What topics are covered in the quantitative analysis course? b. Some of the techniques alluded to (GC, MS, HPLC, TLC, immunoassay, AA/AE, ICP/AES, ICP/MS, SEM, FTIR, UV/VIS, QA/QC, RFLP, DNA, PCR and MALDI/TOF) are rather sophisticated. Can you assume that all students are already familiar with most of these techniques? How much of the theory of these techniques did you teach in the course? c. The sample problems you present in your paper do not require very much knowledge of the above analytical techniques (except for UV/VIS). Were there problems requiring more detailed understanding of the analysis of data obtained by these sophisticated techniques? 3. I assume there was no laboratory work (individual or group) associated with this course. Is that correct? 4. The course had excellent student evaluations. You mention that this course was the second highest rate course in the Department. I'm curious, what was the highest rated course? 5. I know of several schools in this area which teach a course in Forensic Chemistry. Are there many such courses being taught around the country? (This question is directed to conference PARTICIPANTS as well as the authors.) Do you know anything about the content of these other courses? Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13699-5810 ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:53:33 EST5EDT From: "Dr. Scott Goode" Subject: Re: Paper 7 - SG No lab component Hi Everyone: Before I answer the question, let me say how much I enjoy the exchange of ideas. I've lurked through this conference, and all its predecessors, and by being selective, I've saved several hundred messages that I believe have improved my teaching. The three authors with email access are all attending Pittcon. One is already there, and I leave tomorrow. We will try to answer questions from "borrowed" accounts, but will be able to log on only once per day. Anne, there is no formal lab component. We are still feeling our way, but realistically, we cannot offer a lab for 40+ students. We have committed to offering this course every other year, alternating between advanced analytical and forensic chem each spring, so we will have more data soon. We do not have an Instrumental prereq, either, which is another topic we'll address in the future. Lab tours are problematic even when the adjunct faculty are full-time chemists at the STate Law Enforcemnt Division (SLED). Their accrediting agency strongly discourages tours due to potential problems with contamination and custody. We have been able to arrange for lab tours, with the class divided into subgroups of 5-8, and each spending about 30 min in one of the divisions at SLED, then swapping, but this may not be possible in the future. Many concepts can be demonstrated, with the instruments present in the undergrad Instruemtnal lab, or by bringing in others. Breath analyzers and polygraphs, for example, are easily transportable. Scott > > I have a question on this paper. Do you have a laboratory with this > course. I have done lecture only Forensic Chemistry Courses. I was > wondering if you had labs or field trips. > Anne Sherren, ats@noctrl.edu > Scott R. Goode Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry University of South Carolina Columbia SC 29208 Phone: 803-777-2601 Goode@sc.edu [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:47:36 EST5EDT From: Scott Goode Subject: Re: Paper 7 - SG- Answer to Some Short Questions Answers follow > 1. If a student was intereste in pursuing a career in > Forensic Chemistry, > this course might serve as an introduction to the > subject. a. Are there many opportunities in forensic > chemistry for aspiring > chemistry students? The SC Law Enforcement Labs has about 70 forensic scientists, I believe. They seem to hire 1-2 people each year from our program at USC. About half BS and half Ph.D. Many students are interested, perhaps because of the excitement and glamour, but the job is hard work, long hours, mediocre pay, high stress, and mostly unappreciated. > b. Are there graduate programs in Forensic Chemistry? The Forensic Science Education Resource Page (http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/6635/) lists 22 undergrad programs and the following graduate programs. I don't know how many of them specialize in forensic chemistry. Albany State University Auckland University Birbeck College Bournemouth University California School of Professional Psychology California State University - Los Angeles Central Police University Duquesne University Edith Cowan University Fitchburg State College Florida Atlantic University George Washington University Griffith University Institute of Legal Medicine and Forensic Sciences John Jay College of Criminal Justice King's College London Louisiana State University Marshall University Michigan State University National University Philippine College of Criminology Southeast Missouri State University Texas Tech University Universite de Lausanne University of Alabama - Birmingham University of Florida University of Illinois - Chicago University of Kent - Canterbury University of Madras University of Maryland - Baltimore University of New Haven University of New Haven - Sacramento University of Strathclyde University of Technology, Sydney University of Tennessee - Knoxville University of Virginia Virginia Commonwealth University West Chester University Wright State University > > 2. According to your paper one year of general chemistry, > one year of organic > chemistry and one semester of quantitative analysis > were prerequisites for the course. a. What topics are > covered in the quantitative analysis course? 15% statistics 40% equilibrium (precipitation, acid-base, complex) 20% electrochem (potentiometry done Ok, voltammetry slighted) 15 % UV-Vis (done well) 10% Either atomic spec done well and chromatography slighted or vice versa, depending on who teaches it. We use either Skoog, West, and Holler or Harris > b. Some > of the techniques alluded to (GC, MS, HPLC, TLC, > immunoassay, > AA/AE, ICP/AES, ICP/MS, SEM, FTIR, UV/VIS, QA/QC, > RFLP, DNA, PCR and MALDI/TOF) are rather > sophisticated. Can you assume that all students > are already familiar with most of these techniques? > How much of the theory of these techniques did you > teach in the course? > c. The sample problems you present in your paper do > not require very much > knowledge of the above analytical techniques > (except for UV/VIS). Were there problems requiring > more detailed understanding of the analysis of data > obtained by these sophisticated techniques? We teach very little theory in this course. We use the spectroscopy model of Organic--emphasis on interpretation of spectra and identification of compounds. rather than on instrumentation. Our focus becomes mainly qualitative analysis, rather than quant, and that's really not a negative aspect. I've hypothesized that these students will like Instrumetnal better when they take it. Having seen the applications might increase their interest in fundamentals > > 3. I assume there was no laboratory work (individual or > group) associated > with this course. Is that correct? Correct. I should mention that really dedicated students have the opportunity to spend a semester or more as an intern in the SLED lab in an experience analagous to an industrial co-op semester. Also, a number of faculty in Chemistry have collaborative research project so several USC grad students are doing their thesis work as SLED. Examples: identification of paint chips by pyrolysis mass spec, development of a fiber optic Raman system for drug screening, a chemometric approach to analyzing IR and mass spectra of photocopies to identify the origin of the toner cartridge. > 4. The course had excellent student evaluations. > You mention that this course was the second highest > rate course in the Department. I'm curious, what was > the highest rated course? I went back and looked. We have three summative evaluations. Students rate their overall progress in (what they learned form the course) and they rated this course at 3.58, second in the Department to Steve Morgan's (one of our coauthors) special topics course in Chemometrics, 3.69 (he probably had 15 students in the class). The Dept Avg in this category was 2.72. The instructors (Bill Brewer and Steve Lambert from SLED) were 3.79 and 3.75. this ranks 2 and 4 in the Dept. Morgan's chemometrics was the leader at 3.85 and a grad level course in biochemistry had a 3.77. My Gen Chem course was 3.58, by the way, and the Dept average was 3.07. The overall course received a 3.65, which was second behind Morgan. this semester was the first one in which we used a new set of forms, and the numerical scores were slightly lower than we had been used to seeing. The averages dropped by about 0.2 due to the way some questions were rephrased, and the summary statistics were printed without the number of students and standard deviations, a problem that will be rectified. > > 5. I know of several schools in this area which teach a > course in Forensic > Chemistry. Are there many such courses being taught > around the country? (This question is directed to > conference PARTICIPANTS as well as the > authors.) > Do you know anything about the content of these other > courses? The course content was based on the experiences of Bill brewer and Steve Lambert. The bulk of their analyses can be summarized by "separate and identify." I've been contacted by two local high school teachers who are starting to teach this material. Scott R. Goode Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry University of South Carolina Columbia SC 29208 Phone: 803-777-2601 Goode@sc.edu [ Part 6: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 28 Feb 1998 18:22:21 -0800 From: Bob Bruner Subject: paper 7 -- BB: introductory course? Two things are striking... 1. The appeal of the subject matter. This is indicated both by the enrollment and the evaluations. 2. You did it well. This leads me to wonder whether you should try doing this (also) at a more introductory level. This might include students who have had only 1 semester of college chem, or maybe even less. Much of what you are doing involves good scientific logic, but not necessarily great background (depending on what you do, of course). So I wonder whether this would be a good introductory science course, that would attract a wide range of students because of the appeal of the subject matter, and then teach them good science process and some science content. bob Bob Bruner Contra Costa College, San Pablo, CA and UC Berkeley Extension [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:12:50 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 7 - Begin Discussion To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU Re: BEGIN DISCUSSION OF PAPER 6 It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Monday, March 2. The next 96 hours will be devoted to discussion of Paper 7 - TEACHING FORENSIC ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY by William E. Brewer, Stephen J. Lambert, Stephen L. Morgan and Scott R. Goode The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ Messages should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include: the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 7 - MN: Analytical Chemistry Content of the Course" These messages will be received by the authors AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Appropriately labelled subject lines will be useful in sorting out the various discussion threads. Only discussion which is sent from the SAME MAIL ADDRESS from which you subscribed will be accepted and distributed to participants. Place your name, affiliation and e-mail address at the end of your message. Remember that messages sent to CHEMCONF will be distributed to all participants. 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To resume receipt of messages, send the message: SET CHEMCONF MAIL to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU Signing Off ^^^^^^^^^^^ In the event you wish to sign off CHEMCONF, please send the one line message: SIGNOFF CHEMCONF to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU Note that each of the above commands is sent to: LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD and NOT CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU --------------------------------------- SCHEDULE ^^^^^^^^ March 2 to 5 - Discussion of Paper 7 March 6 to 12 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 8 March 13 to 19 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 9 March 20 to 26 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 10 April 10 to 16 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 11 April 17 to 23 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 12 April 24 to May 15 - Evaluation and Discussion of Selected Topics If you need HELP, please send an e-mail message to: Tom O'Haver at to2@umail.umd.edu and NOT TO CHEMCONF ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ======================================================================= [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 15:09:35 -0500 From: Bert Ramsay Subject: Press Release [The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set] [Your display is set for the "ISO-LATIN" character set] [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly] Please forgive the interruption for this announcement. The web site will not have complete information about the hand-held calculator until later this week. Bert Ramsay [Part 3.2, "NIE98pr.txt (Text Document)" Application/OCTET-STREAM (Name: "NIE98pr.txt") 1.9KB] [Unable to print this part] [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:44:14 -0000 From: "Judith F. Heintz" Subject: [The following text is in the "ISO-8859-1" character set] [Your display is set for the "ISO-LATIN" character set] [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly] Are there any readers that have experience with a general science course for criminal justice majors that would include some of the topics you mention, but at a much lower level? We have a large criminal justice major (Community College associates degree) because we have so many prisons in our area. These students have a requirement for either a math or a science course. The criminal justice faculty want a forensic science course which I say is impossible at this level, but a general science course with applications for the criminal justice major might be appropriate. I would appreciate any thoughts on this subject from the readers. J Heintz Clinton Community College [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:44:20 EST5EDT From: "Dr. Jim Beard" Subject: On-Line Course: Pharmaceuticals, Their Discovery, Regulation and Pharmaceuticals, Their Discovery, Regulation and Manufacture OLCC-3 This is an invitation to register your school for the On-Line Chemistry Course for Upper Division Chemistry Students (Prerequisite - one year of organic chemistry) to be held during the Fall term of 1998. The on-line activities will be scheduled for September 14 to November 25, 1998. The title of the course will be "Pharmaceuticals, Their Discovery, Regulation and Manufacture." The course is sponsored by the American Chemical Society, Division of Chemical Education's Committee on Computers in Chemical Education (CCCE). In this course, the Internet will be used for discussions among students (student Listserv and WebBoard), faculty (faculty Listserv and WebBoard) and experts, all from around the world. Topics may include but not necessarily be limited to: 1. Drug discovery including computer-aided design, combinatorial chemistry and other, earlier strategies 2. Development of clinically useable drugs including optimization of novel lead structures and assessment of pharmacodynamics, safety and efficacy of promising drug candidates 3. "Case studies" of the development and use of certain classes of widely used drugs including analgesics, antidepressants, anti-inflammatory drugs, antibiotics, AIDS and anti-cancer compounds 4. The FDA approval and FDA regulated testing process Process and Content Related Goals of the Pharmaceuticals Course 1. To provide an opportunity for students to investigate frequently used processes for discovery and manufacture of pharmaceuticals used as drugs for man and other animals 2. To provide the opportunity for students to gain an understanding of the general procedures for drug testing, its limitations, analysis, use and regulation 3. To provide an electronic forum which permits students to interact with professionals who are involved with the processes in #1 and #2 4. To provide an environment in which students will interact locally and at a distance to do brain-storming, data-gathering, data analysis and problem-solving 5. To provide a forum for discovery of and discussion of industry's interaction with its regulatory, client and physical environment (including such items as government inspections, user complaints and hazardous waste handling) Responsibilities of Participants: Students will participate in collaborative learning assignments where they can practice division of labor, teamwork, and individual responsibility. The Listservs and WebBoards will be used for the discussion of concepts and processes. Instructors at local sites will guide "traditional" literature searches as well as on-line data-gathering. On-line, students will be guided by faculty and each other in their exploration of the content of this course. On-line questions from faculty will sometimes require critical thinking about industrial procedures in terms of a personal values framework It is the responsibility of each participating institution to register students and to provide college credit for the course. The role of the OLCC organizing committee and the CCCE is limited to assistance in organizing and administering electronic aspects of the course. The American Chemical Society will neither provide credit nor assess any fees. It is suggested that students receive three semester hours of credit for the course. It is the responsibility of each local faculty member to assign grades to their students. It is anticipated that a national electronic evaluation will be administered. However, local faculty are encouraged to provide an evaluative process also. For further information about previous on-line courses like this, see the Web Pages for OLCC-1 at http://www.py.iup.edu/college/chemistry/chem-course/webpage.html and additional information and evaluations of OLCC-1 at http://www.clarkson.edu/~rosen2/olcc.html. Further information can also be obtained by contacting the course coordinator: Dr. Lindy Harrison Department of Chemistry York College of Pennsylvania York, PA 17405-7199 717-846-7788 X1210 aharriso@eagle.ycp.edu Those interested in participating in this OLCC-3 course during the Fall of 1998 should complete the pre-registration form and send it to the OLCC-3 registration coordinator, Dr. James Beard, e-mail: jbeard@catawba.edu. *********************************************************** Pharmaceuticals, Their Discovery, Regulation and Manufacture Fall 1998 On-Line Course Registration Form RESPONDENTS ARE ASKED TO EXPAND SPACES AS NECESSARY TO ANSWER QUESTIONS. Institution: Mailing Address: City: State: Primary Course Instructor: Email Address: Business Phone: FAX Number: Home Phone (Optional): Field(s) of Interest: Other Instructor(s) Involved (if any): Email Address(es): Business Phone Number(s): Field(s) of Interest: Estimated Number of Students: Fall 1998 Calendar: Semesters or Quarters: Beginning Date: Fall Break (other than Thanksgiving, if any): Last Regular Class Day Before Exams: Indicate the type and approximate size of your institution. Large University ___ Mid-Size Univeristy ___ Small University or College ___ Other ___ (Explain) Public Institution ___ Private Institution ___ Less than 1000 undergraduate students ___ 1000 to 5000 undergraduate students ___ 5000 to 10000 undergraduate students ___ Over 10000 undergraduate students ___ All students will be expected to have access to E-mail and the World Wide Web. What type of E-mail system do you have? What web browser do you use? Return this form to . [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Tue, 3 Mar 1998 12:33:58 -0500 From: Janet Morrison Subject: Re: J Heintz Judith, I am currently teaching an "Introduction to Forensic Chemistry" course for non-science majors (to satisfy science component of general education requirements) at Trinity College. The course is being developed/taught for the first time this semester. The course is definitely a work in progress, but my goals are to provide an overview of the techniques used in the forensic laboratory, an understanding of the nature and significance of physical evidence, the underlying chemical/physical principles of the techniques employed for its analysis, and the interpretation and evidentiary value of scientific results. "Hands-on" lab experience is provided through "mini-labs" (i.e., 1 hour, carried out during regularly scheduled lecture times) which are carried out periodically through the semester (e.g., chemical development of latent fingerprints; microscopic examination of hairs and fibers; TLC of inks; spot tests for drugs, etc.) as well as in-class demonstrations (e.g., illustration of the concept of chromatography by demonstrating the separation of the food colors in grape soda using a glass column and HPLC so students can "see" the chromatographic process; lab demonstrations of other chromatographic and spectroscopic instrumentation). The course also features guest lectures on various topics by forensic experts. I am definitely teaching the course AS a science course (i.e., I make the students learn scientific principles, but introduce those principles in the framework of forensic analysis), and so far the feedback from the students has been quite good. They really seem to enjoy the "mini" labs -- students who initially indicated their apprehension about studying science have come back to me stating that their favorite part of the course is the lab sessions. The response to the course announcement was much higher than I anticipated, and I had a waiting list of over 40 students. I limited enrollment to 28 students due to my desire to have a lab and demo component. Since this is the first time I have taught the course, I am learning and will certainly change/develop the course with time, but overall I have to say that it is going quite well; I am very much enjoying teaching the course and the students seem to be enjoying the material. BTW, I use the recent edition of Saferstein's "Criminalistics: An Introduction to Forensic Science". I would be happy to provide you with a copy of my syllabus if it would be helpful. 0000, you wrote: >Are there any readers that have experience with a general science course >for criminal justice majors that would include some of the topics you >mention, but at a much lower level? We have a large criminal justice major >(Community College associates degree) because we have so many prisons in >our area. These students have a requirement for either a math or a science >course. The criminal justice faculty want a forensic science course which >I say is impossible at this level, but a general science course with >applications for the criminal justice major might be appropriate. I would >appreciate any thoughts on this subject from the readers. >J Heintz Clinton Community College > > Janet F. Morrison Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Chemistry Trinity College 300 Summit Street Hartford, CT 06106-3100 Ph. 860-297-2216 FAX 860-297-5129 Janet.Morrison@mail.trincoll.edu [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:59:31 -0800 From: Bob Bruner Subject: Paper 7 -- BB: application to other courses??? A question for the authors of paper 7 and for Dr Morrison -- and anyone else... If you were going to incorporate certain aspects of forensic chem into regular chem courses, what would you choose? Lab or lecture material. Answers for various levels of courses would be useful. The general idea is to take some advantage of the inherent interest in this area within our regular courses. bob Bob Bruner Contra Costa College, San Pablo, CA and UC Berkeley Extension [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:19:13 EST From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 7 - Last Day of Discussion To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU Re: LAST DAY FOR DISCUSSION OF PAPER 7 It is 8 AM EST (Eastern Standard Time - 1300 GMT) on Thursday, March 5 This is the last day for discussion of Paper 7 - TEACHING FORENSIC ANALYTICAL CHEMISTRY by William E. Brewer, Stephen J. Lambert, Stephen L. Morgan and Scott R. Goode Consideration of Paper 8 will begin at 8 AM EST tomorrow - Friday, March 6 [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:28:05 -0500 From: Mike Epstein Subject: Re: Paper 7 -- BB: application to other courses??? >Bob Bruner asks: >If you were going to incorporate certain aspects of forensic chem into >regular chem courses, what would you choose? Lab or lecture material. > I've done both in a quantitative analysis/analytical chemistry course. It was incorporated into lecture material using forensic articles out of Chem Matters (from the Mystery Matters section) to introduce various analytical concepts. In the laboratory, it was used as a special project (elemental fingerprinting). Mike Epstein [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 09:52:04 -0500 From: Janet Morrison Subject: Re: Paper 7 -- BB: application to other courses??? >If you were going to incorporate certain aspects of forensic chem into >regular chem courses, what would you choose? Lab or lecture material. For regular chem courses, I would likely choose to incorporate forensic applications in the laboratory if I had to make a choice. For example, when I taught instrumental analysis last semester, the students did a project lab in which they extracted drugs of abuse from hair samples (provided from NIST) and did GC-MS quantification. This project addressed various aspects of analytical/instrumental techniques within a forensic application: sample prep (they compared SPE with liq-liq extraction), analyte derivatization, GC-MS quantification using deuterated internal standards, single ion monitoring, etc. I think the students got a lot out of it. Next time I teach analytical or instrumental, I'd like to do ethanol analysis or possibly accelerants by headspace GC, maybe with comparison to solid phase microextraction. janet At 09:59 AM 3/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >A question for the authors of paper 7 and for Dr Morrison -- and anyone else... > >If you were going to incorporate certain aspects of forensic chem into >regular chem courses, what would you choose? Lab or lecture material. > >Answers for various levels of courses would be useful. The general idea is >to take some advantage of the inherent interest in this area within our >regular courses. > >bob > > > >Bob Bruner >Contra Costa College, San Pablo, CA >and UC Berkeley Extension > > Janet F. Morrison Visiting Assistant Professor Department of Chemistry Trinity College 300 Summit Street Hartford, CT 06106-3100 Ph. 860-297-2216 FAX 860-297-5129 Janet.Morrison@mail.trincoll.edu [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 12:22:38 EST5EDT From: "Stephen L. Morgan" Subject: Re: Paper 7 -- laboratory experiments Bob Bruner wrote: > If you were going to incorporate certain aspects of forensic chem > into regular chem courses, what would you choose? Lab or lecture > material. I am using both lab and lecture material from forensic chemistry in other courses. Often discussion of a forensic application gives students further insight into uses for spectroscopic or chromatographic techniques-- and hopefully provides some motivation for learning. I have been writing new instrumental analysis labs to be used in the forensic course as well as in our instrumental course. One experiment that I have designed uses solid phase microextraction (SPME) and capillary GC/MS (or GC) for the analysis of volatile compounds. Breath analysis is a possible application (one of my graduate students just presented a paper at PittCon'98 on breath analysis), arson analysis is another (another of my students presented a paper on that too). We have often just let the students decide what they wanted to analyze--as long as there is an odor, SPME can be used. Sample preparation is minimized and volatiles are concentrated in a solvent free amnner. We have had students analyze shampoos, bubble gums, fuel additives, perfumes, odor eaters, and cologne. Total analysis time including sample prep is under 30 min. I have an article on this that will be published soon in the Journal of Chemical Education if anyone would like a preprint of it. Dr. Stephen L. Morgan, Professor, Department of Chemistry & Biochemistry, The University of South Carolina, Columbia, SC 29208 Phone: (803) 777-2461, FAX: (803) 777-9521 Email: SLMorgan@sc.edu [ Part 6: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 13:38:45 -0700 From: Scott Donnelly Subject: Paper 7: sjd lab/lecture activities... A number of participants have asked about the use of forensics in class and lab. I am developing a few lab exercises that ask students to think deeply about statistics, an important component of forensics. I would like to share these. I try to incorporate as much statistical analysis into general chemistry labs as possible. I want my students to realize that the outside world is subjected to a higher degree of probabilistic thinking (hetereogeneity) than the world of the general chemistry lab where variables are controlled with greater ease and certainity. For example, the uncertainity in measuring a melting point range of a known compound can be minimized so that the greatest uncertainity is the measurement of error itself, i.e. the random uncertainity of the thermometer. An absolute melting point range exists and we are trying to measure it perfectly. Reality is messier and the results derived from analysis are much less absolute than a melting point range (a non-probabilistic result). I have my general chemistry students do statistical analysis for the heat of combustion of commercially available lamp oil. Students are introduced to the usual statistical terms- median, standard deviation, mean, range, etc.- but also confidence intervals. Based on all the student data generated and after determining that the data are normally distributed (usually the data work out this way), students then determine various confidence intervals. We have no analytical instrumentation of any type at AWC (maybe NSF-ILI will be nice this year) but I am putting together a lab that will have students determine whether two techniques of measuring the rate of decomposition of hydrogen peroxide are systematically different from each other. Students will determine the average rate of decomposition using the technique described in Project L.A.B.S.S. (Laboratory Experiments for General Chemistry) developed by Drs. John Teggins and Christopher Mahaffy of Auburn University at Montgomery. This experimental setup measures the rate of decomposition based on liquid displacement from a washer bottle to a graduated cylinder. The other setup is the commonly used water displacement using an inverted flask (or graduated cylinder) filled with water. In this setup I have the reactant solution purposely housed in a flask with a large headspace initially filled with air. Each experiment measures the displacement of liquid but the setup (and hence technique) is different. Does this make a difference? The uncertainities in each are the same in some ways and different in others. In the first setup (LABSS) reactants are lost as the oxygen gas pushes the reactant solution out into the cylinder. This uncertainity is absent in the second. Furthermore, in the second setup the total volume of water displaced from the inverted flask is not due completely to the oxygen gas being generated. Some air is in the reaction flask headspace and in the tube connecting the reaction and inverted flasks. Purposely, a long tube is used. This uncertainity is absent in the first setup since the washer bottle is filled to the top with reactant solution thereby eliminating headspace. If differences are found, they are a result of the differing and inherent uncertainities found in the techniques (assuming of course student technique is not widely variant). To determine if a systematic difference between the two techniques exists, students will perform a t-test (ultimately, the ratio of variation between a technique and variation within a technique) on the individual differences between the average rate of decomposition for each technique used. I believe this lab will also show how important the "non-reactants", i.e. length of tubing, volume of reaction flask used relative to volume of reactants used, accuracy limitations with measuring instruments (flask versus graduated cylinder), compensation for water vapor pressure, etc., are in determining accuracy (there is a real, absolute rate under certain experimental conditions that exists) and its reliability/precision. I am also developing (with the help of my ecologist colleague) a non-chemistry lab (I believe teaching science is more important than teaching chemistry) to help students learn about statistics. On the AWC campus there are various species of trees. The hypothesis is- Are the variations in the diameter of the different species largely due to species type? Is there any assurance that there is a real, absolute diameter for tree species? Other variables that diameter may be a function of are- age (can selectively measure diameters of trees within an age range), genetics (cannot control), location (can selectively meaure diameters of trees within an area), and other numerous variables. Sources of variation in this problem are not simply measurement dependent as it is the case in taking a melting point range. Tree diameter is measured via circumference for each tree species type. So technique does not vary. Data are collected and analyzed via the t-test which will tell us whether there is a significant reason to believe that tree diameter is a function of species type. Cheers! Scott Donnelly Scott Donnelly Email: aw_donnelly@awc.cc.az.us Department of Chemistry Phone: 520 344 7590 Arizona Western College Webpage: http://www.awc.cc.az.us/chem/ Yuma, AZ 85366-0929 "In education it is not enough to be aware that other people may try to fool you;it is more important to be aware of your own tendency to fool yourself." -Paul G. Hewitt [ Part 7: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 15:49:22 -0600 From: Mike Epstein Subject: Re: ME on SJD comments regarding statistics in general chemistry [The following text is in the "iso-8859-1" character set] [Your display is set for the "ISO-LATIN" character set] [Some characters may be displayed incorrectly] I agree wholeheartedly with Scott's comments. The importance of *understanding* statistical evaluation of data and error analysis is critical to every branch of science and the misunderstanding of measurement error has led to more than a few cases of bad science (some of which can be classified as forensic science). I have done something similar to what Scott related for an experiment in which the students determined the melting point of various organic solids. I worked up one short experiment that can be used at the beginning of any introductory course in chemistry and physics to introduce spreadsheets and statistical analysis of data. Students roll 4 dice, one of which is loaded. They are assigned the task of determining which die is biased (and how it is biased). There are visual clues (close examination of the dice does suggest which one has been tampered with) but I don't tell them and no one yet has picked up on that. Or they can try to deduce the information from statistical analysis of the data from a large number of rolls. In the process of doing this they generate or explore: 1 - Mean, standard deviation, 95% confidence limits 2 - Frequency histograms and statistical distributions; the effect of n on distribution shapes 3 - A simulation of the experiment using the random number generator function of the spreadsheet 4 - Student's t-test 5 - Parametric and non-parametric tests At each point of the experiment they are asked if they can conclude anything from the results at that point. At the end of the experiment, as an extra credit project (and for a bit of fun), they are given the web page of the James Randi educational foundation ( http://www.randi.org ), told about the $1,000,000+ prize for proof of paranormal ability, and invited to try to prove their psychic abilities (or those of their friends) by performing the experiment, attempting to influence the roll of the dice, and verifying the results using the approaches used in the class. The results and some student comments have been interesting. Mike Epstein -----Original Message----- From: Scott Donnelly To: CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Date: Thursday, March 05, 1998 2:39 PM Subject: Paper 7: sjd lab/lecture activities... >A number of participants have asked about the use of forensics in class and >lab. I am developing a few lab exercises that ask students to think deeply >about statistics, an important component of forensics. I would like to >share these. > Date: Fri, 6 Mar 1998 09:17:48 -0500 From: Pankuch Subject: Re: CHEMCONF Digest - 4 Mar 1998 to 5 Mar 1998 A number of people have offered information on material they use in coursesrelated to forensics. Would it be possible to have them added to the webpage containing this paper? Thanks, Brian Pankuch