Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:01:44 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: SHORT QUESTIONS ABOUT PAPER 11 To: CHEMCONF Registrants From: Donald Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU Re: SHORT QUESTIONS ABOUT PAPER 11 It is 8 AM EDST (Eastern Daylight Saving Time) on Friday, April 10. During the next 24 hours you may send SHORT QUESTIONS about Paper 11 - "High School Student Use of World-Wide-Web-Based Hypermedia" by M. Gwen Sibert SHORT QUESTIONS are sent to clarify aspects of the paper, obtain more information from the author and/or conference participants and help to promote subsequent discussion. Answers to SHORT QUESTIONS will be sent at the beginning of the discussion on Monday, April 13. DISCUSSION of Paper 11 will begin on Monday, April 13 and continue ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^ through Thursday, April 16 The paper can be retrieved from the Conference World Wide Web Site: http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf98/ Short Questions should be sent to CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU Please include the PAPER NUMBER, YOUR INITIALS AND THE TOPIC IN THE SUBJECT LINE, e.g. "Paper 11 - UV: How to use web-based exercises" These messages will be received by the author AND the conference registrants. Please send ASCII only messages with no more than 72 characters per ^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ line and no attachments. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To send comments or questions privately to the author of the paper, send your message to the author's e-mail address given in the paper. Reports of typographical errors, spelling or grammatical errors should be sent directly to the author and not to CHEMCONF. --------------------------------------- SCHEDULE ^^^^^^^^ April 10 - Short Questions about Paper 11 April 13 to 16 - Discussion of Paper 11 April 17 to 23 - Short Questions and Discussion of Paper 12 April 24 to May 15 - Evaluation and Discussion of Selected Topics If you need HELP, please send an e-mail message to: Tom O'Haver at to2@umail.umd.edu and NOT TO CHEMCONF ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ======================================================================= [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:44:49 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 11 - DR: Some short questions SOME SHORT QUESTIONS FOR PAPER 11 You have an impressive array of web materials available. I do have some questions: 1. In the "Delivery of Instruction" section you state that: "All of my students have a computer at home and approximately 50% have access to the www through a local internet server . . ." This seems somewhat unusual. Is having a computer at home a prerequisite for the Governor's School or are these particularly affluent communities? 2. In your description of the school you state: "The Governor's School is a specialized high school for students who are interested in science, mathematics and computers." "The students attend either a morning (AM session) or afternoon (PM session) with the other part of their school day at their "home school"." twelve high schools participating - ". . there are a total of 215 students enrolled in both sessions." "The class meets once a week for 50 minutes during the fall and winter trimesters . . ." "first year course, Governor's School Chemistry, required of all incoming students, except . ." "when one is teaching five sections of the same course . ." a. What is the total number of students at RVGS (Governor's School)? Is it 215 students? b. How many courses do students take during any one trimester at RVGS? If chemistry meets for 50 minutes once a week, what do students do for the rest of the AM session and on other days of the week? What would be a typical daily and weekly schedule at RVGS? c. How many students are you teaching in each of the five sections of the course? If you meet each section for 50 minutes once each week, this is less than five hours of class time. What constitutes the rest of your teaching load? d. In what sort of building is RVGS housed? How many teachers are there? How many chemistry teachers are there? [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:10:01 -0500 From: "Dr. Red Chasteen" Subject: Paper 11 TGC Cut to the chase To kick things off: I would like to ask Gwen what the most labor intensive part of this process was. Please gives us the part that cost the least work with the greatest (perceived) result and the most work for the least (perceived) return. Thanks Red Head -- Dr. Thomas G. Chasteen Department of Chemistry Sam Houston State University Huntsville, Texas 77341-2117 Streaming Audio versions of Analytical Chemistry Primers here: http://www.shsu.edu/~chm_tgc/sounds/sound.html [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:07:10 -0600 From: Gabriela C Weaver Subject: Paper 11 - GCW: short questions 1. You state that "Students must apply through their home schoo system to be admitted to the Governor's School." What are the entrance requirements? 2. You give some results in the section "How have students responded...". Did these students have access to the Web-based materials the entire year, or did they have the traditional format at some point and then instruction with the Web materials? 3. Your last paragraph points out that you "have not tried to document the effectiveness of the WWW as a means of presenting chemistry to high school students." I know this type of assessment is perhaps the most difficult to do. However, these are probably the most important results for those of use using Web-based materials to teach. Do you have a *sense* of whether or not your Web-based material had any effect on the students' learning? Any changes with respect to the affective domain (motivation, interest, etc.)? You did address this in part at the end of your paper, but I was wondering in terms of their interest for learning chemistry. 3. Given your experiences using this site for teaching for a few years now, could you give your impressions of what benefits and drawbacks there are for students when we use Web-based materials to teach? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Gabriela C. Weaver Assistant Professor, Chemistry Univ. of CO, Denver Phone (303)556-3201 Chemistry Dept. Fax (303)556-4776 Campus Box 194 / PO Box 173364 Denver, CO 80217-7364 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:36:02 EDT From: Lucky bel Subject: Paper 11-WVV-Selectivity & general student needs The group of students you appear to be dealing with appears to be very atypical. Why is the "...Governor's School..." so selective, and focused on these students seem to have so many resources, motivation and ability? They don't seem to need this additional support. The rest of the population of students who are less well off would seem to be more in need of these enrichment opportunities. How are the needs met for these other students? Walt Volland Department of Chemistry Bellevue Community College Bellevue, Washington 98007 425-641-2467 luckybel@aol.com wvolland@bcc.ctc.edu [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 09:11:50 -0500 From: Paul Kelter Subject: Re: Paper 11-WVV-Selectivity & general student needs Lucky bel wrote: > The group of students you appear to be dealing with appears to be very > > atypical. > > Why is the "...Governor's School..." so selective, and focused on > these > students seem to have so many resources, motivation and ability? They > don't > seem to need this additional support. The rest of the population of > students > who are less well off would seem to be more in need of these > enrichment > opportunities. How are the needs met for these other students? Walt et al; The argument that the very best students shouldn't be pushed to **their** limits because funding is tight is analagous drawing divisions along racial and ethnic lines when jobs are scarce. Each blames the other. A first grade student who can read at 5th grade level shouldn't be in the first grade classroom learning what an "A" or "B" looks like. This is a waste of his, and the teachers, time. This is why "differentiated" classes are so important. Time is precious and should be spent challenging these kids. Students who go to Stuyvesant High School in New York (or Gwen's Governer's School in Virginia) can handle a **far** more rigorous curriculum in science and math than other kids and should be allowed to intellectually fly, not be bored with the regular curriculum. And they darned well **should** be funded. The goal is to fund them while we fight **together** for more funding for all other schools too. This is not an "us against them". This is a "how important is educating all of our students" issue. So in Nebraska, the big pitch for one of our candidates for governor is a "25% Tax Cut". Well, that doesn't help our schools. In Wisconsin some time back, the governor had a budget surplus. I remember getting a check in the mail for $71. Imagine how those hundreds of millions of dollars that were returned in $71 bits could have been used. Is it "elitist" to educate all students to the limits of their capacity? I would argue, on the contrary, that this is our job. If we are boring our highest - achieving students because they can learn very fast, then we are not doing our jobs. So I think that Gwen is absolutely right doing everything she can at the Governer's School. My one concern, having tried a bunch of her links, is that the response to student errors that says, "wrong answer, try again" really doesn't make very good use of the technology and doesn't challenge the best minds as they ought to be challenged. Paul ______________________________ Paul Kelter Associate Professor of Chemistry University of Nebraska - Lincoln Lincoln, NE 68588-0304 402-472-3512 [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 07:10:11 -0700 From: Terry Ramage Subject: Re: photochromism Good Morning I am an adult female student who is participating in the chemistery conference. I am writing to ask you if there are any adult females who would like to write back and forth, not about science, just plain old life. I am looking for pen pals, especially women who are involved with Girl Guides or Girl Scouts. I am married and have two children and I live here in beautiful British Columbia Canada. Thank You Dianne Ramage [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Sat, 11 Apr 1998 18:44:39 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: ROP Re: Paper 11-WVV-Selectivity & general student needs I think that it is desirable to give all groups whatever education is most appropriate for them. This means offering remedial classes for those who need them. It also means advanced classes for those who need them. IMHO, we should apply the best practices for all groups. The only problem with this is that someone will always feel slighted. In education, resources will always be limited and this will always be a problem. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:35:46 EDT From: Lucky bel Subject: Re: Paper 11-WVV-Provide benefits to all students No one said successful students should be held back. I asked what was being done for the other students. There is a responsibility to both groups of students. Walt Volland Department of Chemistry Bellevue Community College Bellevue, Washington 98007 425-641-2467 [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 00:51:52 EDT From: Lucky bel Subject: Re: -Paper 11- Use of CPUs at RVGS In the description of RVGS you listed a large number of desk top computers. What applications do students have access to when they are at the school? Have you integrated software use into your curriculum? Walt Volland Department of Chemistry Bellevue Community College Bellevue, Washington 98007 425-641-2467 From LISTSERV@UMDD.UMD.EDU Tue Apr 14 06:39:25 1998 Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:00:40 -0400 From: Automatic digest processor Reply-To: Conferences on Chemistry Research and Education To: Recipients of CHEMCONF digests Subject: CHEMCONF Digest - 12 Apr 1998 to 13 Apr 1998 [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:37:40 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: Paper 11 - DR: Some short questions Donald Rosenthal wrote: > > SOME SHORT QUESTIONS FOR PAPER 11 > > You have an impressive array of web materials available. > > I do have some questions: > > 1. In the "Delivery of Instruction" section you state that: > "All of my students have a computer at home and approximately > 50% have access to the www through a local internet server . . ." > This seems somewhat unusual. Is having a computer at home a > prerequisite for the Governor's School or are these particularly > affluent communities? The students are not required to have a computer at home in order to attend Governor's School, but every year more and more of the them do. The ratio of PC's to Mac's in their homes is currently about 4:1. The reduction in price of PC's is a big factor in the high percentage of computers now in the homes, plus a lot of parents have bought one so "Johnny" or "Susie" could show them how to use it. The accessories that go along with the computer really vary, from just a computer and nothing else to color scanner and color laser printer. The school loans out several of the old Mac SE's that were taken off the network three years ago to students without home computers This way they can do word-processing, use spreadsheets, and prepare graphs at home, then bring in their work on a diskette and print it at school. Our students are also allowed to use the school's computer resources for other schoolwork, such as printing history or English papers. Some of our students come from extremely affluent families, others represent the first person in their families to graduate from high school and go to college. > 2. In your description of the school you state: > > "The Governor's School is a specialized high school for students > who are interested in science, mathematics and computers." > "The students attend either a morning (AM session) or afternoon > (PM session) with the other part of their school day at their > "home school"." > twelve high schools participating - ". . there are a total of > 215 students enrolled in both sessions." > "The class meets once a week for 50 minutes during the fall and > winter trimesters . . ." > "first year course, Governor's School Chemistry, required of all > incoming students, except . ." > "when one is teaching five sections of the same course . ." > > a. What is the total number of students at RVGS (Governor's School)? > Is it 215 students? this year we have a total of 215 students in both sessions. > b. How many courses do students take during any one trimester at RVGS? > If chemistry meets for 50 minutes once a week, what do students do > for the rest of the AM session and on other days of the week? > What would be a typical daily and weekly schedule at RVGS? each student takes two courses and one elective. The first-year students also take a computer applications course which alternates weekly in pulling out time from the math and science courses. A normal week's schedule for the upperclass students is like this: Monday: AM1 from 8:20 to 9:40, AM2 from 9:45 to 11:00 Tuesday: AM1 from 8:20 to 9:10, AM2 from 9:15 to 10:05, Elective from 10:10 to 11:00 Wednesday: AM1 from 8:20 to 11:00 Thursday: AM2 from 8:20 to 11:00 Friday: identical to Monday The afternoon session is a duplicate of the morning with the periods labeled PM1 and PM2. It starts at 12:25 and ends at 3:00. > c. How many students are you teaching in each of the five sections of > the course? If you meet each section for 50 minutes once each week, > this is less than five hours of class time. What constitutes the > rest of your teaching load? This year I teach Advanced Chemical Topics AM2, PM1 and PM2, and the environmental research elective in both the morning and afternoon sessions. I have 17, 10 and 15 students respectively in the chemistry classes and 9 and 8 students in the elective classes. I also had 6 directed study students. These are students who were continuing their research projects from last year under my supervision. This is the fourth year in a row that at least one of my directed study students has won a trip to the International Science and Engineering Fair. I have a lot fewer students than I did when I taught in a regular high school ( I have had as many as 157 students in five chemistry classes per day) but the work at Governor's School is much more intense than I ever encountered before. We are expected to provide a lot of challenging, hands-on, in-depth instruction that the students would not get at their "home school". It's great fun, but exhausting, and I know I certainly can't "wing it" if I don't prepare my lessons beforehand. A classroom full of bright teenagers keeps me on my toes. > d. In what sort of building is RVGS housed? > How many teachers are there? > How many chemistry teachers are there? We have a small building built on the campus of one of the participating high schools. There is a picture of it on my homepage. It has the four science classes, the computer lab, director and secretary's offices, a very small faculty office, and a conference room and guidance office, both of which were made from what was originally a classroom. A modular building houses three math classrooms. We have plans for expansion and renovation of the main building, but the funding has to be approved by all seven school systems that support the school, and some of those systems are facing severe budget constraints. We really need more space. My room also doubles as a math room during my planning period. We have 14 faculty and staff members. There is one full-time biology, one biology and first-year chemistry, one full-time first-year chemistry, and one full-time physics teacher, plus me. There are also five full-time math teachers, one full-time computer teacher, a guidance counselor, a secretary and a director. All teachers have a minimum of a Master's Degree. -- ********************************************************* Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@pen.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ********************************************************** [ Part 4: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:52:13 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: Paper 11 - GCW: short questions Gabriela C Weaver wrote: > > 1. You state that "Students must apply through their home schoo system to > be admitted to the Governor's School." What are the entrance > requirements? the entrance requirements are set by each school system, although they use a common application form. Prospective students, and at least one parent or guardian must attend one of several information meetings which are held throughout the area during the months of January and February. Applications forms are available only at these meetings. The forms are turned in to the director of guidance or gifted and talented programs at the different systems. Students must submit achievement scores, grades, recommendations from a math and a science teacher, and two essays. One essay is why they want to come to Governor's School. Selection is done in March, with each system deciding on which students they will send based on the number of openings. Each system pays for a certain number of students. The number of students per system ranges from five to about 85. Some would send more students if the we had room for them. One school system requires that each student reapply every year, but once a student is sent by the other systems, he or she is here on a permanent basis unless the RVGS faculty recommend otherwise. > 2. You give some results in the section "How have students responded...". > Did these students have access to the Web-based materials the entire year, > or did they have the traditional format at some point and then instruction > with the Web materials? I have added new material each year, so compared with the students the first year, this year's students have had much more access to the Web materials that even last year's students. I have also added material about a concept after we had completed the main work on the concept each year. So, for the past three years, all of the students have had a mixture of traditional format plus web materials, with more web materials each year. > 3. Your last paragraph points out that you "have not tried to document > the effectiveness of the WWW as a means of presenting chemistry to high > school students." I know this type of assessment is perhaps the > most difficult to do. However, these are probably the most important > results for those of use using Web-based materials to teach. Do you have > a *sense* of whether or not your Web-based material had any effect on the > students' learning? Any changes with respect to the affective domain > (motivation, interest, etc.)? You did address this in part at the end of > your paper, but I was wondering in terms of their interest for learning > chemistry. I think that most of my students have had their interest in learning chemistry heightened by having much of it Web-based. I will add some questions that try to elicit this information when I give them the end-of-the-year survey. I will gladly receive suggestions from anyone with expertise in the area of formulating survey questions. > 4. Given your experiences using this site for teaching for a few years > now, could you give your impressions of what benefits and > drawbacks there are for students when we use Web-based materials to teach? > First the drawbacks: too many students think that if they find something on the web is it correct, gospel. They don't check the legitimacy of the information, is it documented, etc. They often think that looking up something in a reference book is too tedious, or boring, or too much trouble. The STS project that I require of students during the first trimester calls for a minimum of five references. Some students turned in only information obtained from the WWW. Benefits: I can tailor the information to the needs of my students, presenting it in a way that is interesting to them, and as long as they have Internet access, is available on all platforms. I can add the interactive pieces along the way to give them a little practice, or provide visuals as needed. ********************************************************* Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@pen.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ********************************************************** [ Part 5: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:58:23 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: [Fwd: paper 11] Questions from Brian Pankuch pankuch-new wrote: > > Gwen, > I tried to post the questions below to the conference but had it kicked back. > I'm still interested in the information. > > Brian > > Gwen, > > In switching from your overheads of your lecture notes to having them on a > computer screen, what did you hope to accomplish? What did you accomplish? > Was there any change in the type or amount of learning that took place? Does > learning seem more efficient-more learned during a class period than with the > traditional method? My students love to use computers so I figured that putting the notes on the computer would still allow me to project them on the screen, and would allow the student who missed class for some reason to access them whenever they could get on the Internet (at home if they have Internet access or at school anytime). It is hard to say if there has been a change in the amount of learning, but the students do show a high interest in the classes where the notes are on the Internet. The lab experiments with links have saved time and mistakes. The graphic with the Pasteur pipette saved me from having to take time to show the class how to put it together. The first time we did this lab after I had put it on the Web I stood back and watched. Most of the students had printed off the page with the drawing and brought it with them to the location where the materials were located. They had no trouble following the directions and all ended up with nice little columns > Does the process seem more efficient on the computer? How do student results > differ from your original method? > > Students in a class will work at very different rates. What do you do with the > fastest and slowest? Students sit at square tables with a maximum of four students per table. Most of the time when notes are being given and we are working problems together as a class, or they are working on practice problems, they are expected to help each other part of the time. For example, they might work individually first, then compare answers to see if they agree. If some are stuck then there is usually one student that can do the problem and they are expected to help the others. The times that the students are working on the notes on an individual basis, one student per computer, those students that finish early always have a long-term assignment that is pending and they are expected to work on that. > How do your results change when you put problems on the computer versus giving > out problems on paper with answers on a separate sheet? I don't know that the results change from the problems on the computer vs. paper. The students do well both ways. > Having more of a tutorial available online when students get an answer wrong > would seem useful. If you had more release time and funding what steps would > you be taking next? If I had more release time and funding, I would produce much more in the way of tutorial lessons, with a lot of practice problems and feedback with hints for wrong answers. -- ********************************************************* Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@rvgs.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ********************************************************** [ Part 6: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:14:04 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: Paper 11-WVV-Selectivity & general student needs Lucky bel wrote: > > The group of students you appear to be dealing with appears to be very > atypical. > > Why is the "...Governor's School..." so selective, and focused on these > students seem to have so many resources, motivation and ability? They don't > seem to need this additional support. The rest of the population of students > who are less well off would seem to be more in need of these enrichment > opportunities. How are the needs met for these other students? > The Roanoke Valley Governor's School was established to provide a unique learning environment that would challenge the gifted and highly motivated students in the area around Roanoke. The Commonwealth of Virginia decided to take a different approach to that of most states in the US by setting up regional schools rather than residential schools. The states of North and South Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Oklahoma, for example, each have a residential school for a limited number of students (four to six hundred usually). Originally, there were four Governor's Schools in Virginia, with Thomas Jefferson Governor's School for Science and Technology located in Fairfax, the best known. It is quite large, with about 1800 students in grades 9 - 12 who attend TJ all day. The other schools are half-day programs. There are now eight regional Governor's Schools with a enrollment of approximately 3200 students. Why do we need these kinds of schools? Many students who drop out of high school are very bright, but are (1) not challenged and are bored (2) are "different" from the average student and thus the object of scorn or ridicule (3) choices 1 & 2 Many young women do not go into science, math, or engineering because (1) they hear it is "too hard for a girl" from a parent (2) their mother's didn't do well in algebra or chemistry so they don't expect they can do well either (3) their parents don't know how to relate to a daughter that is interested in taking apart a motor and putting it back together again (4) they have women elementary school teachers who are afraid of science and math (5) all they see on TV, hear on radio, and read in magazines is about how to look good for some boy We MUST provide for the needs of these students!! I have had many parents tell me that not until their children started to Governor's School had they "felt part of the group", "felt respected for what their intelligence", and/or "wished they could go to Governor's School for all subjects." The female to male ratio at my school is 1:1. Three of the five science teachers and two of the five math teachers are women. All are strong role models for our young women. Our female graduates attend highly selective universities and colleges and receive thousands of dollars in scholarships every year. Many of them have told me that if it hadn't been for Governor's School they would never have considered even applying for these schools, or going into a field of engineering, science or math. -- ********************************************************* Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@rvgs.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ********************************************************** [ Part 7: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 22:19:00 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: -Paper 11- Use of CPUs at RVGS Lucky bel wrote: > > In the description of RVGS you listed a large number of desk top computers. > What applications do students have access to when they are at the school? > Have you integrated software use into your curriculum? The school is primarily Mac-based. All of the Macs, and some of the PC's, are networked to an Apple server. (We are changing over to an NT server this summer). School computers (Macs) have Clarisworks for word-processing, spreadsheets, and databases, Graphic Analysis or Kaleidograph for graphing, Ophoto or Graphic Converter for use with the scanners and digital cameras which students may use, Netscape 3.0 or 4.0 Internet Explorer for Internet use, Eudora 3.1 lite for e-mail (all students have an e-mail account through the school) and Claris Homepage for designing web pages. These represent the software on all of the computers. Some computers also have the TI-83 links attached. As far as chemistry material is concerned, I have quite a bit of the JCE: Software for Mac, DOS and now Windows that I use. I also make extensive use of Steve Lower's Chem1Ware software, especially the gases and chemical bonding lessons. I have one of the Interactive Chemistry CD-ROM's by Stan Smith. I use a program from Falcon that does molecular geometry. I use the Universal Lab Interface from Vernier in some of the laboratory experiments (such as pH measurement in titrations and temperature measurements in thermo experiments and Kf determination). These are just a few examples of software use in my classes. -- ********************************************************* Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@rvgs.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ********************************************************** [ Part 8: "Included Message" ] Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 16:18:14 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: DR: Gwen Sibert's replies to short questions It is my understanding that Gwen Sibert sent answers to short questions out early Monday morning. Tom O'Haver received them. I have not. I'm not sure whether this is a Listserv problem or a problem with my mail system. Has anyone else not received Gwen's answers? If so, please contact Tom O'Haver (to2@umail.umd.edu). Don Rosenthal ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 10:16:41 -0600 From: Gabriela Weaver Subject: Re: Paper 11-WVV-Selectivity & general student needs Gwen Sibert wrote: > > We MUST provide for the needs of these students!! >.... Many of > them have told me that if it hadn't been for Governor's School they > would never have considered even applying for these schools, or going > into a field of engineering, science or math. It's interesting to hear you say this. So many times I've heard people say we really should concentrate on the middle 50% or the lower 25% because the upper 25% will be just fine no matter what we do. Yet, your experience and the comments of your students seem to indicate otherwise. I agree that we need to think about meeting the needs of our best and brightest, just as we try to meet the needs of those students with learning disabilities. If only this were a perfect world and we had all the resources we need to educate all people to their highest potential... Gabriela C. Weaver Assistant Professor University of Colorado at Denver Chemistry Department Campus Box 194 P. O. Box 173364 Denver, CO 80217-3364 Phone: (303) 556-3201 Fax: (303) 556-4776 [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 16:04:55 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 11 - DR: More about the RVGS Students Re: Grading Students in the RVGS and More About the Students Question A: Since these students are presumably among the best math and science students in their respective high schools, I assume they would normally be A students in their schools. What fraction receive A grades in your courses at RVGS? Questions B: What happens to these students after high school graduation? What fraction go on to college? What fraction major in math or science in college? What sort of colleges do they go to? How well do they do in college and beyond? ------------ [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 08:11:14 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 11 - DR: Student and Teacher Attitudes About RVGS Questions C: The RVGS removes students from their home school. You indicate that some students who otherwise might be bored and turned off by studying chemistry at their home school are stimulated by the RVGS environment. Are there very good students who are eligible for RVGS but opt not to participate? What sort of exposure do students have to RVGS before they must decide? Questions D: Because of RVGS, teachers at the participating schools lose their best math and science students. How do the teachers feel about this? How do students who don't make it to RVGS feel about this? Are students at the feeder schools placed in sections based upon their abilities? Question E: As I understand it, the RVGS caters only to exceptional math and science students. What about students who exhibit exceptional abilities in other areas, e.g. art, music, social studies or writing. Are there special schools for them? Questions F: Do you teach AP courses at RVGS? Why or why not? [ Part 2: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:01:28 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: Paper 11 - DR: More about the RVGS Students I apologize to the list for not getting a reply out to Don's questions earlier today. My son is getting married this Saturday and I have a house full of company, and I just couldn't get any time to type out the answers before now. Donald Rosenthal wrote: > > Re: Grading Students in the RVGS and More About the Students > > Question A: > > Since these students are presumably among the best math and science students > in their respective high schools, I assume they would normally be A students > in their schools. What fraction receive A grades in your courses at RVGS? Question A: Yes, the students we get have mostly A's through middle school. The majority (60-70%) of my students make an A, although in one of my classes this year (PM1) everyone made a B for the second trimester. We use a 10 point grading scale. If a student has a C, or lower at mid-trimester or the end of a trimester, the teacher must initiate a conference with the student, call or write to the parent(s) and suggest a conference with the parent(s) and student, depending on how low the grade is. The teacher must also fill out a referral form and submit it to the reevaluation committee. A student will be put on probation for the next grading period, or if he/she has already been on probation, it may be the recommendation that the parents hire a tutor or that the student would be better off back at the home school full-time. Usually when students do poorly it is because they haven't learned how to organize and manage their time so they get far behind and can never get caught up, they decided they really don't want to study as hard as is required for our classes so don't, and/or they are at Governor's School only because an older sibling attended the school and it is a status thing in their families. We have had a few students who were truly misplaced and should never have been sent to Governor's School. It was too hard for them from the beginning. This is becoming less and less the case, however, because most school systems that send us students have many more applicants than there are openings. > Questions B: > > What happens to these students after high school graduation? > What fraction go on to college? > What fraction major in math or science in college? > What sort of colleges do they go to? > How well do they do in college and beyond? Question B: We have tried to do follow up on our graduates, but it is difficult to get replies back from everyone. Approximately 98-100% of the students go to a four-year college or university. Two years ago one of the boys joined the Marines in order to get money for college. He got put into a highly technical field after his training. According to the results of the follow-up surveys that we have sent out, it appears the 65% of our graduates major in science, math or engineering. Many of those students who go into other areas come to Governor's School because they like science and or math even though they don't want to pursue a career in either, and/or because they want the more rigorous curriculum we offer. We have built up a reputation for successfully preparing students for college life. Quite a few of our former students have gone on to graduate school, medical school, or law school. My daughter attended RVGS for three years, graduating in 1989. She went to a very small private, Christian college, King College, in Bristol, TN and majored in French. She now works for a medical software company in Raleigh, NC. There are four practicing lawyers from her class, one who works for a large firm in Houston, TX and the other three in various location in Virginia. Another student in her class graduated from Hampden-Sidney with a degree in mathematics and Latin. He is now working on his Ph.D. in Latin. One of our young math teachers is a graduate of our school. She graduated from William and Mary and then went to graduate school for her masters degree at NC State in Raleigh. One of my daughter's best friends at Governor's School majored in English at W&L and then got her masters in creative writing. One of my all-time favorite students (and we all have those students who seem extra special) was an honor graduate in chemical engineering at VA Tech and is now finishing her second year in a doctoral program in chemical engineering at the University of Colorado, Boulder. Another one of our students who is a graduate of the Air Force Academy is now in flight school, I think for F-16's. She is doing very well with her military career. Every year or two a student will go to the local community college, usually because of money. The school getting the largest number of our graduates is Virginia Tech, closely followed by the University of Virginia and then William and Mary. Many of the students attending these schools would have preferred other schools at which they were accepted, but because of the costs associated with private or out-of-state schools, opted for the instate schools. We currently have graduates attending Cornell, Harvard, Duke, Wake Forest, UNC, Georgia Tech Yale, MIT, Air Force Academy, Princeton, West Point, the Naval Academy, the University of Pennsylvania, Washington and Lee, Auburn, VMI, Georgetown in addition to the three larger state schools. The valedictorian at Dartmouth last year was one of our graduates. As I mentioned in one of my previous answers, many of our students apply to and attend colleges and universities that they say they never dreamed of until they came to Governor's School. We try to open up possibilities and expand their horizions. -- ***************************************************** Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@rvgs.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) ***************************************************** [ Part 3: "Included Message" ] Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 02:06:44 -0400 From: Gwen Sibert Subject: Re: Paper 11 - DR: Student and Teacher Attitudes About RVGS Donald Rosenthal wrote: > > Questions C: The RVGS removes students from their home school. > You indicate that some students who otherwise might be bored > and turned off by studying chemistry at their home school are > stimulated by the RVGS environment. > > Are there very good students who are eligible for RVGS but > opt not to participate? > > What sort of exposure do students have to RVGS before they > must decide? > I was talking in general about students who might be bored and turned off by traditional courses in their home schools, not just chemistry. We try to teach all of our courses, math and science, in nontraditional ways. Oh yes, there are students who would do very well at RVGS, by prefer to stay at their home school all day. Some students, especially 9th or 10th grade girls, don't want to leave their friends. It is sometimes hard to schedule classes such as band or choir and come to Governor's School. We have a fair number of athletes and musicians, but sometimes students will find that they just can't do it all and so decide not to return after the first year or during their senior year. Quite a few of our students have had older siblings attend RVGS, so these students are very familiar with the school. All prospective students are required to attend one of several information meetings held during January and February. We have a very nice video that shows students doing a lot of different things, and has comments from current and former students, teachers and parents. They also see a Power Point presentation with a lot of information about school and then they are given literature about the school, as well as an application packet. all prospective students are invited to spend a morning visiting the school and sitting in on first-year classes. We have student Ambassadors from each school, so they usually give the visitors a tour of the building and introduce them around to a lot of people. > Questions D: Because of RVGS, teachers at the participating schools lose > their best math and science students. > > How do the teachers feel about this? > Many of the math and science teachers at the home schools do not like Governor's School because of this reason, although most will admit that they don't provide the same level of instruction as we do, or in quite the same way as we do. I was teaching at one of the feeder schools when the Governor's School opened so I know what it is like to lose some of the really good students to RVGS. > How do students who don't make it to RVGS feel about this? > Students who don't get into RVGS the first time, sometimes try the next year, but otherwise they have to accept that they weren't selected. We often have to tell them, or their parents, to call their home school system to find out why they weren't selected, that we had nothing to do with it. > Are students at the feeder schools placed > in sections based upon their abilities? A math assessment is given in the late spring (on a Saturday) to see if any students are really advanced compared to the average entering student. If so, they are offered the opportunity to take Pre-calculus or even calculus as 9th or 10th graders. There will usually be 8 or 10 students to take the higher placement. There is also a computer assessment to determine the level of computer experience that the students have. There is quite a bit of difference between some of the school systems as to the amount of computer usage they provide for the students. Even though a lot of the students have computers at home, we find that many of them really don't know how to use spreadsheets, data bases, and the fancier aspects of word processors. All first-year students take the Governor's School Chemistry (you can see the syllabus and competencies on the web site) unless they have a credit in chemistry from their home school. Only once in a while will they have already had any chemistry. > > Question E: As I understand it, the RVGS caters only to exceptional > math and science students. What about students who exhibit > exceptional abilities in other areas, e.g. art, music, social > studies or writing. Are there special schools for them? > We get a lot of students are "global", meaning they can do well in many areas, so they come to Governor's School to get a rigorous education in all areas. One of our really talented juniors in science and math, is also musically talented. He is 17 years old, and he and a 16 year old girl from Blacksburg, VA along with the conductor of the Roanoke Symphony Orchestra, played Mozart's Piano Concerto in F for Three Pianos and Orchestra two weeks ago. He was wonderful. We have had numerous students win state and national awards in debate, various music areas, and drama. The Roanoke City school system has magnet schools that have special emphases. One of these is a fine arts magnet for drama and music. I'm not sure just what all they provide. It also has a program for seniors called CITY school (Center for Instructionally Talented Youth) and its focus is on the humanities. Many of our seniors from Roanoke City schools also attend the CITY school, thus not taking any classes at either of the two high schools in Roanoke. The Richmond area has a school for international studies. There are some summer programs provided by the state in the area of humanities and foreign languages. They are housed at various colleges throughout the state and last from four to six weeks. > Questions F: Do you teach AP courses at RVGS? Why or why not? No, we do not teach any courses called AP. Quite a few students will take the AP calculus test, and I have one or two take the AP chemistry test each spring. When RVGS was first begun, all the science courses were AP (biology, chemistry and physics) as was the calculus. Then we switched over to the science courses being dual enrollment with the local community college. Now we just do our own thing (although Virginia is making it difficult by forcing us to conform to the curriculum they are requiring of the regular high schools). Our schedule makes it very hard to include everything needed for an AP test by the middle of May. We take out the time from Thanksgiving to Christmas for Intersession (3-4 weeks) so that's a big chunk out of an AP curriculum. Not having the AP credits doesn't seem to have hurt the students chances of getting accepted into highly selective colleges, nor hurt their performances their first year in college. We do a lot of group project work, and that takes more time than traditional methods so we find it very hard to conform to the AP schedule. -- ***************************************************** Gwen Sibert sibert@rbnet.com 2551 Willis Way gsibert@rvgs.k12.va.us Daleville, VA 24083 http://www.chem.vt.edu/RVGS/RVGS-home.html http://rbnet.com/~sibert/Index.html Phone: 540-992-4053 (home) 540-853-2116 (work) *****************************************************