Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:15:16 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 6 - DR: Simulation, Virtual Reality and AI Re: Paper 6 - DR: Simulations, Virtual Reality and Artificial Intelligence (Expert Systems) 1. In your paper you mention a number of simulations. Are you using some of these in courses which you teach? Can you provide some details? What sort of student feedback to you receive? 2. You provide a link in your paper to virtual reality and mention that a three-dimensional simulated laboratory has been or is being developed for the teaching of chemistry. Can you tell us something about this venture and its present status? Specifically, what is being developed? 3. You have written on Applications of Artificial Intelligence in Chemistry. It has always seemed to me that individualized instruction should be possible via computer, if evaluation was combined with artificial intelligence (expert systems). Based upon student performance and the determination of specific deficiencies each student could be tutored differently. a. Do you have plans for providing such individualized instruction? b. Are you planning to combine artificial intelligence with some of your simulations? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 10:09:30 -0500 From: "Dr. Red Chasteen" Subject: Paper6-TGC: Nature doesn't solve equations... Please note the power of Hugh's Coupling Applet (Figure 1), but some may also feel that it might take "hours to configure your brower to handle this bell and whistle" while many of these same images could be drawn on a blackboard. But please pay attention: NOTHING I have seen puts at your fingertips the understanding that would come to a sophomore organic lab student in regards the concept and applicability of coupling constants like dragging the sliding bar back and forth and seeing the NMR peaks change position. Also remember that this does not require specialized software on the student's end: just Netscape. Hugh, how long does it take to generate code similar to that particular Applet? chm_tgc@shsu.edu Dr. Tom Chasteen Department of Chemistry Sam Houston State University Huntsville, Texas 77340 U.S.U. Education Primers Here: http://www.shsu.edu/~chemistry/primers/primers.html Dr. Thomas G. Chasteen, Graduate Advisor Associate Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Sam Houston State University Huntsville, Texas 77341-2117 USA 409) 294-1533 phone 409) 294-1585 fax All the Masters theses completed in my research group are available as on-line Adobe Acrobat Documents viewable with the free Acrobat Reader. Interested? Check out: http://www.shsu.edu/~chm_tgc/theses/abstracts.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 14:04:25 -0500 From: George Long Subject: Paper 6, GRL: Intuition, and Understanding equations I have three, perhaps related, short questions for Hugh. First, Clearly there is a need for chemists to understand how to use equations at some point, At what point do you think students need to focus more on the equations and less intuition ? (perhaps this depends on the particular equations. In essence, aren't equations, (i.e. mathematical models) just very compressed simulations, -since all the relavent information is contained in the equation or set of equations ? In fact, can't some things be counter intuitive, thus better explained by equations than a "feel" for how things work? **************************************************************************** George R Long, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 grlong@grove.iup.edu, http://www.iup.edu/~grlong/ Technology has made the world a neighborhood, now it is up to us to make it a brotherhood - Dr. M.L. King **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:07:15 CST From: "James A. Carroll" Subject: P6 - JAC Comment on GRL equation questions > ...aren't equations, (i.e. mathematical models) just very > compressed simulations, -since all the relavent information is > contained in the equation or set of equations ? I think that is a common, limited perception. I find it thought provoking to direct attention to the assumptions underlying an equation (theoretical) or to the variables held constant (experimental), and therefore not appearing in an equation. Though I don't use it often, this can be used as a short-answer test question investigating the sophistication of a student's intuition. Jim Carroll Phone (402) 554-3639 Chemistry Department Dept (402) 554-2651 University of Nebraska at Omaha FAX (402) 554-3888 Omaha, NE 68182-0109 jcarroll@unomaha.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:42:33 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: paper 6 - tjz - question on women in science Dear Hugh I noticed when reading the paper a brief passing mention of why aren't there more women in science. I would like to know if you have references to studies that address this issue that you would be able to share with the participants of this conference? As you know this is an important issue and perhaps using computers in teaching chemistry may impact on the outcome of the number of women scientists we produce in future. Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 17:42:33 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: paper 6 tjz question on goals and objectives Dear Hugh You clearly state that we should not haphazardly sprinkle simulations etc. throughout the curriculum. I wonder what your opinion is about including clear goals and objectives with those simulations that are included in the curriculum? I am particularly interested in an approach to teaching that clearly lays out the objectives for each lesson so that the students know exactly what is expected, especially with respect to their performance and skills after completing a lesson. Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 22:15:13 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: paper 6 - tjz - question on women in science On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > Dear Hugh > > I noticed when reading the paper a brief passing mention of why aren't there > more women in science. > > I would like to know if you have references to studies that address this > issue that you would be able to share with the participants of this > conference? As you know this is an important issue and perhaps using > computers in teaching chemistry may impact on the outcome of the number of > women scientists we produce in future. > There was a very good article about the factors that effect the success of women in graduate programs in chemistry in CHEMICAL EDUCATOR volume 1 at http://journals.springer-ny.com/chedr /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 07:27:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations I enjoyed paper 6 and agree with many of the points raised there. Thanks for a most stimulating contribution to the conference. I use simulations of measurement systems in several of my analytical chemistry classes; some are of the "black box" variety, but some are more of the "lucite box" variety, in which the objective is to make the underlying workings of the system more visible than thay would be when using the real physical system in the laboratory. My question relates to the practical matter of development methods. Paper 6 was rather vague on that point. The problem is finding a development system that allow one to construct simulations quickly and easily enough to be really practical. Because my own simulations are driven by fairly small sets of simple equations (typically less than 30), I have used the software construction-kit approach using Hypercard and object-oriented spreadsheets. But these tools are not suited to molecular- level simulations. I wonder if there if there is a general-purpose simulation engine that is suited to the simulation of modestly large ensembles of interacting particles? Can any of the existing molecular mechanics programs be extended to such purposes? I would love to able to simulate, for example, the solution process and the common colligative properties. Could such problems be simplified without significant loss by restricting the simulation to two dimensions? (After all, almost all of the textbook drawings of such things are already two dimensional). Ideally, all this could be done without programming - in the way that engineers use electronic circuit simulators to study the (simulated) behavior of complex combinations of components without programming. Or organic chemists simulate the conformations of molecular structures using a molecular mechanics program. An additional requirement is that such simulations should run on the platforms that are commonly available to our students - namely Windows or Macintosh systems. Or do I have to wait for a few years for the power of common desktop machines to increase by another order of magnitude? Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation (301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 19:47:29 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, to2 wrote: > I wonder if there if there is a general-purpose simulation > engine that is suited to the simulation of modestly large > ensembles of interacting particles? Can any of the existing > molecular mechanics programs be extended to such purposes? > I would love to able to simulate, for example, the solution > process and the common colligative properties. Could such > problems be simplified without significant loss by restricting > the simulation to two dimensions? (After all, almost all of > the textbook drawings of such things are already two dimensional). Hyperchem will perform single point energy and extended Huckel calculations as well as develop the minimum energy conformation for you right on screen. The Promethious program developed in Germany will simulate the infrared spectrum from Hyperchem ".hin" files of molecular structures. Does anyone know of a source of "hin" files on the net? You can convert pdb files to hin with Bable. My underpowered computer balks at pdb's greater than about 40K. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 18:58:53 -0500 From: sc18 Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations Richard O. Pendarvis wrote: Hi, How can I get Promethious? Ken Fountain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 21:35:46 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations > > How can I get Promethious? I found it on a www server someplace in Germany but cannot remember where. You might try a search with the domain restricted to de or edu. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:23:00 -0700 From: "K.R.Fountain" Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations I found the server, but they are apparently not in business anymore because all the download files told me that the URL is not available on the server. If you have a copy of the program is it legit to share it? Sincerely, Ken Fountain -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:01:27 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Promethius On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, K.R.Fountain wrote: > I found the server, but they are apparently not in business anymore > because all the download files told me that the URL is not available on > the server. If you have a copy of the program is it legit to share it? You are right, it has been moved. I found Promethius 5.1 resident as of 6/24/97 @ 11:40pm at the author's (Martin Jursch) home page located at http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Martin.Jursch/ It is about a 1100 K zip file. As far as I know there are no restrictions on academic use. To install it requires a code which you must acquire by emailing the author. (His address is given at his homepage.) I redownloaded it last night. I cannot transmit it to you because my ISP has a 100 K limit on email attachments. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:18:36 -0700 From: "Pastorek, Christine" Subject: FW: CP -Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC823B.D7B22930 > -----Original Message----- > From: Pastorek, Christine > Sent: Thursday, June 26, 1997 1:58 PM > To: Pastorek, Christine > Subject: RE: CP -Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations > > > I think Dr. Pendarvis is refering to HyperChem Lite, which will only > do geometric optimizations with MM+ and extended Huckel and only > reads/writes .HIN files (there is is the Windows clipboard, however). > > Full blown HyperChem (ver. 4.0 or 5.0) will read many different file > formats including ent, pdb. HyperChem calculates the IR and the > UV-Vis spectrum and displays each in a spectrum format. It allows for > animation of the IR as well. > > There is a nice shareware program called HyperCAM-no conection with > the above that will capture the PC screen to an .AVI file-This is a > nice feature when used with HyperChem IR animiations or Molecular > dynamics. This is also a nice Web Lab Viewer from Molecular Sim. > Inc., that will read ent, pdb, etc. files and this allows for > interactive viewing by WEB (similar to CHIME but works with Internet > Explorer). > > Dr. Christine Pastorek > Department of Chemistry > Oregon State University > Gilbert Hall 153 > Corvallis, OR 97331-4003 > Voice: (541) 737-6732 > FAX: (541) 737-2062 > internet: pastorekc@chem.orst.edu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard O. Pendarvis [SMTP:afn02809@AFN.ORG] > Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 1997 4:47 PM > To: CHEMCONF@UMDD.UMD.EDU > Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations > > > Hyperchem will perform single point energy and extended Huckel > calculations > as well as develop the minimum energy conformation for you right on > screen. > The Promethious program developed in Germany will simulate the > infrared > spectrum from Hyperchem ".hin" files of molecular structures. > > Does anyone know of a source of "hin" files on the net? You can > convert pdb > files to hin with Bable. My underpowered computer balks at pdb's > greater > than about 40K. > ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC823B.D7B22930 name="Molecular Simulations Inc.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Molecular Simulations Inc.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.msi.com/ ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC823B.D7B22930 name="HyperCam.url" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="HyperCam.url" [InternetShortcut] URL=http://www.hyperionics.com/www/hypercam.htm ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC823B.D7B22930-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:25:45 -0500 From: Sylvia Esjornson Subject: Re: paper 6 - sre - question on women in science On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > Dear Hugh > > I noticed when reading the paper a brief passing mention of why aren't there > more women in science. > > I would like to know if you have references to studies that address this > issue that you would be able to share with the participants of this > conference? Theresa, The following is from a biblio slip I drew up after seeing the book via interlibrary loan. If I recall correctly, many of the subjects in the study were very high achievers thoughout their schooling, top tier grad schools, and so on, hence the title Lost Talent. Author: Hanson, Sandra L. Title: Lost Talent: Women in the Sciences Temple University Press 1996 LOC: Q130.H365 ISBN: 1-56639-446-5 My own brief summary: Overall, this book provides data to support --what we suspect nowadays-- when we speak of gender correlated science experiences. Authors surveyed a matrix of science experiences called "activities, achievement, access, attitudes" about science. long term study, various race and ethnic groups. Many of their correlations suggested gender effect, though not all did. Sylvia Esjornson, Ph.D. Chemist Assistant Professor of Chemistry Southwestern Oklahoma State University 100 Campus Drive, Weatherford OK 73096 esjorns@swosu.edu (405) 774-7032 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 13:05:31 -0700 From: "Pastorek, Christine" Subject: FW: paper 6 - cp-sre - question on women in science Probably many of you have read the recent article in Science News (SN 151 , May 31 1997) dealing with why talented students drop out of science in college. These are discouraging reports and a call to arms!! One of two studies done dealt with tracking the 1983 Science Talent Search winners for 10 years; 5 years after graduating HS 22/94 had left science; 15 of these were women. A second reported study in 1993 involved 460 students from various colleges and universities all having at least 650 in the math SAT noted that "slightly more than half switched out of science or related majors". The most common reasons cited were: lack or loss of interest in science, belief that another major was more interesting or offered a better education, poor science teaching and an overwhelming curriculum. This is discouraging. These are certainly the issues that ChemConference and all the CHED activities attempt to address-and have been talked about and analyzed for a long time in the science education community-why have there been no gains in 10 years?? A lot of discussion goes to how to improve the lecture system-make it more entertaining, educational, etc., etc. Is this perhaps the force that is holding back real change in science education? I can't help but think that an appreciation on our part of getting back to the fun part of getting the students to participate in science is one key. As one of the students in the STS study was quoted as saying, "...I really enjoyed the whole process of doing scientific research (with the Westinghouse project)..when I got to college and went to some of the required science classes, like intro bio and chem, I realized I was going to in for 3 years of memorizing scientific facts..At that point I said to myself 'I'm going to miserable if this what I do for the next 3 years.' " Certainly other strong forces to nurturing our college science talent brought out in the article are the importance of informed advising at the high school level and mentoring by scientists once in college. Particularly poignant is the comparison made with talented athletes and musicians - "science students often have to give up the tinkering and inquiring - the science they've always been pursuing-once they get to college." .."The arts are doing a better job of taking this level of talent and considering it a precious resource." a dagger in the heart but all too true. Chris Pastorek Oregon State PastorekC@chem.orst.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 16:45:37 -0400 From: reeves Subject: Re: FW: paper 6 - cp-sre - question on women in science Chris Pastorek writes > A lot of discussion goes to how to improve the lecture >system-make it more entertaining, educational, etc., etc. Is this >perhaps the force that is holding back real change in science education? I think this ignores the fundamental reason we make painfully slow progress. As impressive and busy as this listserv is, we have under 1000 of the chemistry teachers in the world actually signed up, and likely a much smaller percentage of us "lurkers" actually paying attention. More importantly, as messages from many of us indicate, the actual implementation of reforms in whatever form, be it media, group learning, etc., is rare in most venues because there is no reward structure for doing it. What's more, even if a faculty member is brave enough to launch a reform effort and prolific enough to get the "important research" done anyway, there is no guarantee that her/his colleagues will go along with the reforms, since all require a time commitment, a learning curve, and an admission that "the way its always been done" isn't working. Unfortunately, it is far too easy to blame our failures on the "today's students". It seems to me that any chemistry department that derives the bulk of its FTE's (full time equivalents) from introductory chemistry should have someone in the tenure track PAYING ATTENTION and leading the charge toward chemical education reform (or at least, seeing to it that the best job possible is being done introducing students to what science really is all about). Some schools have adopted this notion (often in response to the people who pay the bills, like legislatures), but many still farm off their introductory programs to lecturers, part time instructors, graduate students, or researchers who are past their prime (read, no longer getting the big grants). Of course, many of us who are "past our prime" for getting big research grants are finding chemical education reform to be very rewarding, and I think that over time we will start to see a change in the attitude of our professorate that encourages these efforts. Then, I think, we will begin to see the changes in student attitude (and aptitude) toward science we all desire. Jimmy Reeves, Associate Professor Department of Chemistry University of North Carolina at Wilmington 601 S. College Rd. Wilmington, NC 28403 910-962-3456 910-962-3013 (fax) ------------------------------ From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper 6: HMC Responses to questions part A Paper 6: "Nature doesn't solve equations, so why should we? Mathematically-lean simulations in chemistry" Questions from Donald Rosenthal ---------------------------------------------------------- **1. In your paper you mention a number of simulations. ** Are you using some of these in courses which you teach? ** Can you provide some details? ** What sort of student feedback to you receive? We use various simulations in our physchem practical course. Simulations in Molecular Dynamics and Nuclear Magnetic Resonance are used by many students. Java applets are used in web pages to access and retrieve data from an optical rig (though this is not strictly a simulation), and we have used a number of simulations on a trial basis. I am enthusiastic about simulations, but see them as a useful, not essential, part of a course. In more detail: a) As part of the undergraduate course in practical PhysChem, a molecular dynamics simulation is run on an Acorn Archimedes, (which is a fast non-PC, which most North American readers will not have met). Students find the simulation instructive, and the experiment is done by many of them. However, because we have chosen to make the maths fairly rigorous, the simulation itself is not as dynamic as we would like. We are re-writing this software at present and regard molecular dynamics as a productive area for simulations. b) Also part of the practical course in PhysChem is a simulation of Nuclear Magnetic Resonance, run as a series of Java applets. These applets are accessible through a web browser, but have no html text around them. This is because the experiment refers to particular page numbers in an NMR text, so students do the experiment with the text beside them. However, it is possible, having some background knowledge of NMR, to benefit from the exercises, even without the text. The experiment is new, but has been well received by students. Doubtless the fact that they recognize it has been written to amplify and illustrate the lecture material helps... c) Our Internet-accessible optical rig is also part of our 1st year course in PhysChem. It has proved popular, but also irritating because of programming complications. Software problems which in the past have sometimes disrupted the experiment, are being written out. Students enjoy the experiment. Again much of the documentation is in hardcopy, but minimalist instructions on the web pages allow external users to gather data from the rig. The percentage of connections from outside Oxford is small, but rising. d) We have used xyZET, a mechanics program, for some research activity and for some teaching of chemists taking a 1st year physics course. This is a particularly versatile piece of software, which at present runs on HP series 700 hardware alone, though a group in Ljubljana is porting it to Java. There have been some fairly detailed studies in Germany into the effectiveness of this software, with reasonably encouraging results. e) Other simulations mentioned in the paper, such as those dealing with oscillating reactions and fractal deposition, have been used on a trial basis with students, while we develop new experiments. In both cases the results were sufficiently encouraging that the software - originally in C, using X and Motif - is now being rewritten using Java. Overall, student feedback has been positive, though we have not made any formal assessment of the value of the simulations. We use simulation in our practical course, rather than the lecture course, so informal comment is easy to obtain. Simulation will play a greater part in the practical course in future, but primarily as a tool to help students understand hands-on experiments, rather than as standalone experiments. We plan to make a formal assessment of them in about a year. **2. You provide a link in your paper to virtual reality and mention ** that a three-dimensional simulated laboratory has been or is being ** developed for the teaching of chemistry. Can you tell us something ** about this venture and its present status? Specifically, what is ** being developed? There are two separate developments here. a) Dr Karl Harrison (karl.harrison@icl.ox.ac.uk) who is our chemistry IT officer is developing a virtual lab as part of the undergraduate course in inorganic chemistry at Oxford. The idea is not to replace traditional experiments, but to integrate the computer into the laboratory much more effectively. I have asked Karl to respond and will forward his response to the conference. b) The Internet-accessible rig which our 1st year students use is - potentially - the first of a series of on-line experiments in physical chemistry. Each experiment will be capable of being run from any computer on the Internet. Advantages of such experiments include * access to specialized equipment at other sites, which may not be available at the host institution * the introduction of a wider range of experiments into the undergraduate course * making use of expertise that exists at other universities * the sharing of costs between universities by accessing experiments developed elsewhere * thorough integration of Internet use into lab work * an increase in student throughput as many pairs of students work virtually simultaneously with one piece of equipment. You will infer from this that we are looking to develop collaborative links with other departments. Each might develop one or two Internet-based experiments, but if, say, a dozen Universities are involved, the range of techniques covered will be considerable. We are at an early stage, but see this as a potentially very fruitful area. **3. You have written on Applications of Artificial Intelligence in ** Chemistry. ** It has always seemed to me that individualized instruction should be ** possible via computer, if evaluation was combined with artificial ** intelligence (expert systems). ** Based upon student performance and the determination of specific ** deficiencies each student could be tutored differently. ** a. Do you have plans for providing such individualized instruction? No, but this is not to say that what you suggest is either impracticable or undesirable. On the contrary, I think that using AI to develop "intelligent" tutoring methods has enormous promise. However, at Oxford the emphasis is on college-based teaching by chemistry tutors. Our use of CAL-type material is less than that at most universities, and I believe that the integration of elements of AI - such as an expert system - with traditional CAL material is best accomplished at a University which has a greater reliance on CAL than we do. ** b. Are you planning to combine artificial intelligence with some of ** your simulations? Yes. I expect a student to start work in this area in September, probably in collaboration with a project for a UK drugs company. I'll be happy to provide further information on this towards the end of the year for anyone interested. Questions from "Dr. Red Chasteen" ---------------------------------------------------- ** Please note the power of Hugh's Coupling Applet (Figure 1), but some may also ** feel that it might take "hours to configure your brower to handle this ** bell and whistle" while many of these same images could be drawn on a ** blackboard. But please pay attention: NOTHING I have seen puts at your ** fingertips the understanding that would come to a sophomore organic lab ** student in regards the concept and applicability of coupling constants ** like dragging the sliding bar back and forth and seeing the NMR peaks ** change position. Also remember that this does not require specialized ** software on the student's end: just Netscape. ** Hugh, how long does it take to generate code similar to that particular ** Applet? I grew up on Fortran (so am no spring chicken...) The NMR simulations and the Internet rig software are written in Java. This has several advantages for this kind of work: portability, (simulations run within a browser on a range of platforms), applets can be embedded in web pages (so explanation and simulation can readily be presented together), and the graphics capability is good. Java is a challenge at first, (at least it was to me!) partly because of its scope. I am still a Java novice, but with practice, it is straightforward to write a simple simulation of, say, interacting gas molecules or diffusive flow. This might be an afternoon's work, once one is familiar with Java. If your background is more Fortran-based than C-based, as mine was, be prepared for a bit of work getting to know Java first. In my view the effort is worth it, though. Questions from George Long -------------------------------------------------- ** I have three, perhaps related, short questions for Hugh. ** First, Clearly there is a need for chemists to understand how to use ** equations at some point, At what point do you think students need to focus ** more on the equations and less intuition ? (perhaps this depends on the ** particular equations. The place of equations may depend more on the type of course than on the timing. For example, a Chemistry for Non-scientists course might include topics in atmospheric chemistry. Students could run a simulation in which levels of carbon dioxide, HFCs, intensity of solar radiation etc. could be altered, and the effect on the atmosphere studied. This would be of value even without the equations which underlie the kinetics. Non-chemists might not need to know at any stage the mathematical basis of the simulation to benefit from it. On the other hand, I would not want my chemistry honours students to have a hand-waving understanding of atmospheric chemistry without being able to discuss the relevant kinetics and equilibria. My guess is that it is probably easier for students to see the simulation first, and then tackle the equations, but equations and simulation should certainly come close together - one wants students to establish a logical link in their mind between the form of the equation and the physical behaviour. Perhaps the most important reason for using a simulation is to give students a "feel" for how the physical world behaves. Let's take an example: When a real gas expands from high pressure to low pressure through a constriction, it generally changes its temperature. If a simulation, based upon the appropriate equations, just shows high-pressure gas on one side of the throttle and low pressure (probably cooler) gas on the other side, the simulation does little beyond illustrating the experimental layout. Instead, the simulation should be at the molecular level. Students would then discover the fundamental cause of the temperature change - that is, the loss or gain of kinetic energy as the average distance between the molecules changes under the influence of the intermolecular forces. Once the student has understood where the temperature change has "come from", the equations from which it can be calculated can follow. In that way, both phenomenon and equations will be better understood. ** In essence, aren't equations, (i.e. mathematical ** models) just very compressed simulations, -since all the relavent ** information is contained in the equation or set of equations ? Simulations of course rely on equations, and to that extent a simulation is indeed encapsulated in the underlying equations. However, it is not always easy to extract the behaviour of a system by looking at the equations. The force between gas molecules is typically weakly attractive at large distances and strongly repulsive at small distances. This can be expressed approximately by Morse-like equations. Yet most of us would, on seeing the Morse equation for the first time, be unable to translate that expression of intermolecular force into physical behaviour. [And if you aren't convinced by that, consider the equations which describe oscillating reactions - there's no doubt that a visual representation here gives insight which the equations will not!] ** In fact, ** can't some things be counter intuitive, thus better explained by equations ** than a "feel" for how things work? I think you are absolutely right here. Certainly there are physical phenomena which are difficult to simulate, or where a simulation adds little to student understanding. Further, I would guess that there are topics in which an understanding of the relevant equations is, as you suggest, more valuable than any simulation would be. [Although I can't think of any at the moment! Anyone any suggestions...?] >From: Theresa Julia Zielinski writes ------------------------------------------------------------ ** I noticed when reading the paper a brief passing mention of why aren't there ** more women in science. ** I would like to know if you have references to studies that address this ** issue that you would be able to share with the participants of this ** conference? As you know this is an important issue and perhaps using ** computers in teaching chemistry may impact on the outcome of the number of ** women scientists we produce in future. I agree this is an important issue, and I'm pleased to see that there have already been responses to Theresa's question. My experience is entirely anecdotal. At Oxford we have a higher proportion of female chemists than in most universities, but a 50-50 ratio would be great, and we are some distance from that. I am afraid that I'm not sufficiently familiar with the literature on this subject to be able to make any really informed comments, and will be very interested to read what others have to say about this. More from Theresa Julia Zielinski ---------------------------------------------------------- ** You clearly state that we should not haphazardly sprinkle simulations etc. ** throughout the curriculum. I wonder what your opinion is about including ** clear goals and objectives with those simulations that are included in the ** curriculum? I am particularly interested in an approach to teaching that ** clearly lays out the objectives for each lesson so that the students know ** exactly what is expected, especially with respect to their performance and ** skills after completing a lesson. Clear goals are essential. The xyZET mechanics program, for example, is large and extremely comprehensive. This offers the possibility that students might wander through the array of simulations, and gradually pick up a feel for mechanics by a kind of osmosis. This does not happen. Without a clear goal, students become so intrigued with the system that they end up playing (which develops their understanding, but does so inefficiently), or become lost within the software and get discouraged and frustrated. When software is complicated, some guidance for the student seems to be essential. However, I believe the guidance should be framed as a series of general "tasks". Telling the student that he/she should run the simulation "...with the following parameters: sigma=4, MW=16..." may be too prescriptive. On the other hand, asking the student to "...investigate how the boiling point varies as a function of temperature and intermolecular force..." defines a specific goal, while at the same time not spoon-feeding him/her with the settings to every parameter. This latter approach must surely be preferable, challenging to the student as it is. >From: to2 ------------------------------------------ ** I enjoyed paper 6 and agree with many of the points raised there. ** Thanks for a most stimulating contribution to the conference. ** I use simulations of measurement systems in several of my ** analytical chemistry classes; some are of the "black box" variety, ** but some are more of the "lucite box" variety, in which the ** objective is to make the underlying workings of the system ** more visible than thay would be when using the real physical ** system in the laboratory. ** My question relates to the practical matter of development methods. ** Paper 6 was rather vague on that point. The problem is finding ** a development system that allow one to construct simulations ** quickly and easily enough to be really practical. Because ** my own simulations are driven by fairly small sets of simple ** equations (typically less than 30), I have used the software ** construction-kit approach using Hypercard and object-oriented ** spreadsheets. But these tools are not suited to molecular- ** level simulations. ** I wonder if there if there is a general-purpose simulation ** engine that is suited to the simulation of modestly large ** ensembles of interacting particles? Can any of the existing ** molecular mechanics programs be extended to such purposes? ** I would love to able to simulate, for example, the solution ** process and the common colligative properties. Could such ** problems be simplified without significant loss by restricting ** the simulation to two dimensions? (After all, almost all of ** the textbook drawings of such things are already two dimensional). ** Ideally, all this could be done without programming - in the ** way that engineers use electronic circuit simulators to study ** the (simulated) behavior of complex combinations of components ** without programming. Or organic chemists simulate the conformations ** of molecular structures using a molecular mechanics program. ** An additional requirement is that such simulations should run on ** the platforms that are commonly available to our students - ** namely Windows or Macintosh systems. Or do I have to wait for ** a few years for the power of common desktop machines to increase ** by another order of magnitude? There may be many different opinions on this one! For what it is worth, I think Java is possibly what is required. Using a suitable browser, Java applets will run on PCs, macs and workstations without any modification to the code. Java is object-oriented, so that code written for one application can be re-used for others. The way in which Java accomplishes this is much more flexible than Fortran or C, and makes code re-use really practical. The speed of Java is, for many applications, quite adequate, especially with just-in-time compilers. Finally, two-dimensional representations of three-dimensional phenomena (such as colligative properties) can be useful in developing qualitative understanding, though it is important that any restrictions within the simulation are not allowed to mislead the student. Java is tremendously versatile, but......... it is not a panacea for all programming problems. One's efficiency when developing simulations (or any significant piece of teaching material) is determined by familiarity with the software being used. As people develop expertise with their favourite programming environment, many will be faster using Excel or Hypercard to develop teaching software than the rest of us with Java. >From: George Long ---------------------------------------- ** Anyway, there was one additional question I wanted to ask. As you point out ** the mathematically lean simulations are computationally "heavy". I guess ** I'm curious about the relative advantage of this method, if the simulation ** is "heavy" enough to tax the computer system. Do think it is possible to ** combine some bulk, and some Macroscopic equations, say for example the ** lennard -Jones 6-12 potential, and say the virial equation, to get the ** benefits of the molecular perspective, yet reduce the computational load ?? Indeed. Most simulations are approximations anyway. In a simulation of a real gas, one assumes an approximate equation to describe the interaction between molecules. The simulation should be sufficiently lifelike that the student can get a feel for the way that the system behaves, but lifelike behaviour does not imply complete rigor. For example, a simulation of gas-phase molecules, using 6-12 potential, will show that two atoms which would "like" to join to form a molecule cannot do so if no other molecules are present; a "third body" is needed to carry away excess energy. Introduce a third atom, and the bond can form. Furthermore, in a gas of many atoms, when molecules do form, they usually have non-zero vibrational and rotational energies, The rates of rotation and vibration may not agree precisely with experiment, but molecular vibration, rotation and equipartition are all readily illustrated, even using approximate equations. Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 From: George Long Subject: Re: Paper 6: HMC Responses to questions part B >** In fact, >** can't some things be counter intuitive, thus better explained by equations >** than a "feel" for how things work? > > I think you are absolutely right here. Certainly there are physical >phenomena which are difficult to simulate, or where a simulation adds little >to student understanding. Further, I would guess that there are topics >in which an understanding of the relevant equations is, as you suggest, more >valuable than any simulation would be. [Although I can't think of >any at the moment! Anyone any suggestions...?] > The ones that come to mind are the equations used in classical Thermodynamics, e.g. The Maxwell relations. One specific example; it always seems difficult for students to grasp the idea that entropy increases with increasing volume. Off course what they think of as disorder, and what we mean by molecular disorder are very different things. Also, the idea of enthalpy seems to me to be a difficult concept to visualize on a molecular level. Of course, given the tools available when classical thermo was developed, I'd guess that visualization was not part of the process. Perhaps a molecular perspective, using the computer, would be a viable alternative to the classical thermo (which drives my students crazy in any case) **************************************************************************** George R Long, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 grlong@grove.iup.edu, http://www.iup.edu/~grlong/ Technology has made the world a neighborhood, now it is up to us to make it a brotherhood - Dr. M.L. King **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: "L. Peter Gold" Subject: Re: FW: paper 6 - cp-sre - question on women in science At 01:05 PM 6/27/97 -0700, Pastorek, Christine wrote: >Probably many of you have read the recent article in Science News (SN >151 , May 31 1997) dealing with why talented students drop out of >science in college. These are discouraging reports and a call to >arms!! One of two studies done dealt with tracking the 1983 Science >Talent Search winners for 10 years; 5 years after graduating HS 22/94 >had left science; 15 of these were women. A second reported study in >1993 involved 460 students from various colleges and universities all >having at least 650 in the math SAT noted that "slightly more than half >switched out of science or related majors". Certainly other strong forces to nurturing our college ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:40:25 -0400 From: "James N. Stevenson" Subject: Paper 6: JNS - Authority of Simulations Somewhere along the line the student must accept the "authority of the simulation" in order for learning to take place. The student must believe that this is how beams, atoms or molecules actually behave in the world in order for the simulation to be effective. Where does this acceptance enter the process and by what means? 1. Can we rely on the "if it's on TV (computer, web, etc.) then it must be true" axiom (or adage)? 2. What else can be told to the astute student who asks, "How did you make the computer do that?" other than "I used equations, i.e., relationships (Fortran, Basic, C, Java, ....)? Sincerely, James N. Stevenson E-mail: jims@austin.concordia.edu Concordia University at Austin or: ctxstevenjn@crf.cuis.edu 3400 IH35 North Phone/voice mail:512-452-7662 Ext.1209 Austin, TX 78705-2799 Fax:512-459-8517 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 10:50:41 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, TJZ comments on #6 Sorry this a bit behind, Theresa asked about good articles on women in science. I know of two papers that are real eye- openers. 1. "Letting Girls Speak Out About Science", Dale Baker & Rosemary Leary, Journal of Research in Science Teaching, Volume 32 (1), PP. 3-27 (1995). Some highlights--these young women (grades 8 & 11) repeatedly requested more group work and more discussion. Straight lecture was not discussed warmly by the women in the study. They did not want to be passive learners. Many of the grade 11 girls have unclear ideas about careers in science. They do not see the connection between mathematics and science. They do not have a clear idea of what scientists are and what they do. Many of the women in the study expressed ideas of wanting to help people and animals--therefore they see biological science (and related careers) as much more relevant than physical science and related careers. 2. "The Loss of Women From Science, Mathematics, and Engineering Undergraduate Majors: An Explanatory Account", Elaine Seymour, Science Education, Volume 79 (4), PP. 437-473 (1995). This article presents a well focused description on why women leave SME majors. It is a must read for anyone wishing to gain insight into why bright young women lose confidence in their ability to "do science" and switch majors. Highlights: Women do not switch from SME to other majors because they aren't prepared, or don't make adequate grades. They perceive the teaching methods used in undergraduate SME courses as impersonal and uncaring (p. 444). The women sometimes feel alienated (p. 453,454), and complain about the inner stress of feeling unwelcome. They do not understand the culture (p. 455). They want a personal relationship with faculty (this comes out when they discuss large classes, P. 464-5). Grades = approval from faculty (p. 466-7). And finally, failure to encourage young women is taken as discouragement (p. 467). To sum up the conclusions of this study: Many women arrive on our campuses hoping to establish a personal relationship with faculty. When that does not occur, women in SME classes tend to feel that they are performing badly and begin to doubt their ability to "do science" regardless of how well they are actually doing in their courses. Comments? Marcy Hamby Towns Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 11:52:54 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: paper 6 - tjz - goals and objectives This morning Hugh wrote the section quoted below. I think that perhaps a more explicit use of goals and objectives may be appropriate in the materials we develop for students. For example I would write in addition to what Hugh writes: After this exercise you will be able to: 1. explain the variation of boiling point as a function of temperature and pressure using molecular models. 2. write about the relationship between molecular structure and the strength of intermolecular forces of interaction 3. Compare the boiling points within a class of chemical compounds and explain trends on the basis of molecular structure and forces of interaction between molecules 4. predict the boiling point of a newly synthesized member of a class of compounds given structure and physical property data for other members of that class. I would do this at the beginning of the exercise, follow up with the more open ended suggestion given by Hugh and then bring the exercise to closure by a mastery exercise that uses the learned skills in a new application which may even extend the skills of the students further. Opinions anyone? Collegially yours Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 12:45:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations I asked if there were general-purpose simulation engines that are suited to the simulation of modestly large ensembles of interacting particles and which could be used to simulate the solution process and the common colligative properties. Richard Pendarvis suggested I use Hyperchem for this purpose. Can Richard or anyone else provide a published reference describing such an application? I had no idea these programs were so versatile. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation (301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 13:20:45 -0400 From: Michael Chejlava Subject: paper 6 mjc goals and objectives tjz comments Theresa Zielinski wrote >Opinions anyone? Well, you asked. In my personal experience I have found that setting explicit goals for courses or exercises leads to trouble. The students look at these as the most that they need to do and do not look any farther or deeper than the gaols suggest. Also, when observing the "real world" I have never gotten a set of prepackaged questions. (Maybe I'm missing something.) Yes, setting explicit goals for excercises or giving questions to answer before a video is shown will lead to more of the students getting the answers correct on a test, but does this prepare them better for the "real world"? I remember reading about a study done for the military related to training and education and it found that the only way that people learn is to make mistakes and correct them. This report recommended that educational programs should be somewhat messy and ill-defined. I hope that there is someone out there with much more wisdom about this than I have. If you're out there, please help! Michael Chejlava Department of Chemistry & Environmental Science Lake Superior State University Sault Sainte Marie, MI ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:16:23 -0400 From: "L. Peter Gold" Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, TJZ comments on #6 At 10:50 AM 6/30/97 -0500, Marcy Towns wrote: ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 14:07:00 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: paper6 - tjz - women in science Dear Hugh and Colleagues I must tell you why I asked about references for women in science and why women often don't follow through in science careers. Section 4.3 in Hugh's paper left me sad for two reasons. First, that women did not pursue careers in science or dropped out, and second, because the way the paragraph was written suggested that no amount of work would enable women to match the inate scientific intuition and 'flair' that men had. In May I finished leading a one credit writing course for my students and one of the things that would be a 'kiss of death' in a letter of recommendation would be the phrase 'hard working'. Contrast this to describing a young scientist as having a strong intuition, being creative, being an innovator, etc and you can see what I mean. Then also think how at one time the intuition of women was used as an argument to keep them out of seats of power etc. and one wonders if every time a woman turns around some other excuse will be used to describe her work and less productive and less effective despite her hard work. Another experience I had adds insight to this concern I have about discussions of women in science. I have had occasion to serve on NSF review panels from time to time. NSF expresses it's concern about the number of women in science by including in the proposal guide lines a statement to the effect that the impact of a project on women in science is an important aspect of the proposal. In the small subset of proposals that I have read I notice that usually the authors refer to targeting women to increase their retention in science but then when you look at the literature section or examine the body of the proposal there is no clear meshing of the needs of women as learners and the activities of the project. Usually the topic is not touched again after some preliminary remarks. Furthermore, in the proposals I have read there is no article or book cited to show that the PI is aware of the women in science literature. So I feel sad and concerned. Well by explaining myself a bit I hope that this turns into an opportunity. We have through the electronic medium of exchange here the chance to exchange literature information and to perhaps reflect a bit on our own classroom practices. How can we make our classes more accessible to students with varying learning styles and cultural backgrounds? Are we conscious of the impact of what we write and the nuance of interpretation that a reader may place on one or another phrase or paragraph? Is the 'flair for science' at the university level really absent in women or are we untrained in detecting the unique 'flair' that women bring to the process? Is it necessary to throw stones or fall out of trees to be a good scientist as an adult? In the book "School Girls" by Peggy Orenstein (sp?) girls have already learned by junior high that men do the interesting experiments and women carry the clipboard and take notes. In the book "Women's Ways of Knowing" by Belinky et al. the different ways that women learn is discussed. Early in the book she describes the metaphors for understanding for men as being sight based while the metaphor for female understanding is hearing based. Saying that this group or that are 'hard working' and other similar expressions that try to simplify a complex situation with complex roots and long historical predispositions does little to foster equal opportunity for success in science for all. We need to examine personally our own behaviors with respect to different students in our classes. We may need to construct new ways of conducting and orchestrating our interaction with students so as to make the playing field more level and to create environments in which all participants can visualize themselves as valued contributors. Our young scientists need to become less culture bound and gender bound than we are. This can only happen by us consciously self correcting our own behaviors By careful examination of the ways students learn we may be able to wrap together the male and female approach to learning and multicultural components of learning to create a whole greater than the sum of the parts. Hugh, although I think your paper would have been as strong or stronger if section 4.3 were entirely absent, your remarks in this section created an opportunity for exchange of ideas and the start of a multilog among us. It is clear to me that we are all concerned about making science and endeavors accessible to all. By probing the issues involved we may be able to breakdown some of the barriers in and around us. Imperfect in Wisconsin Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:44:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Re: Paper 6: JNS - Authority of Simulations James N. Stevenson wrote: >Somewhere along the line the student must accept the "authority of the >simulation" in order for learning to take place. The student must believe >that this is how beams, atoms or molecules actually behave in the world in >order for the simulation to be effective. Where does this acceptance enter >the process and by what means? Good point. What I do is to hand out a list of all the equations involved in the simulation. Usually the equations are all in the textbook and are (hopefully) individually understandable and justifiable. I then tell them that the computer simply works out the implications of all those equations operating simultaneously. Of course, how do they know that the computer can do this correctly? One can never be completely sure that the computer will in fact be accurate in every case, but you can look at a few critical states for which you can predict the behavior (i.e. make sure the simulated system does so-and-so when I set variable A=0, just like I would expect). That helps to increase confidence. As Hugh said, a simulation does not have to rigorously correct to be useful educationally. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation (301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 15:04:10 -0500 From: "Bondeson, Steve" Subject: Re: Paper 6: JNS - Authority of Simulations Tom O'Haver wrote: >Of course, how do they know that the computer can do this >correctly? One can never be completely sure that the >computer will in fact be accurate in every case, but you >can look at a few critical states for which you can >predict the behavior (i.e. make sure the simulated >system does so-and-so when I set variable A=0, just like >I would expect). That helps to increase confidence. Simulations are wonderful tools and are especially helpful in developing critical thinking skills in students. Just like with their calculators, students need to use a healthy skepticism when looking at the results of a simulation, especially if it's of the black box variety. >>Steve<< Professor Stephen R. Bondeson (715) 346-3714 (Voice) Department of Chemistry (715) 346-2640 (FAX) University of Wisconsin-SP sbondeso@uwsp.edu Stevens Point, WI 54481 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:16:16 -0400 From: Leon Combs Chemistry Subject: Re: Paper 6: JNS - Authority of Simulations At 11:40 AM 6/30/97 -0400, you wrote: >Somewhere along the line the student must accept the "authority of the >simulation" in order for learning to take place. The student must believe >that this is how beams, atoms or molecules actually behave in the world in >order for the simulation to be effective. Where does this acceptance enter >the process and by what means? > We also must always remember that these are models of reality. Students, and others, sometimes tend to accept the simulations as reality which can be an even bigger problem. If they don't see the derivations of the equations then they don't see the assumptions involved which limit the applicability of the simulations. "Nature" doesn't have to solve equations -- we do, because we have to have models of reality. Leon Leon L. Combs, Ph.D. Tel: 770-423-6159 Professor and Chair, Dept. Chemistry FAX: 770-423-6744 Kennesaw State University e-mail: lcombs@ksumail.kennesaw.edu 1000 Chastain Road http://science.kennesaw.edu/~lcombs Kennesaw, GA 30144-5591 CARPE DIEM ---- CORUM DEO ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 16:41:46 -0700 From: Doris Kimbrough Subject: Paper 6 - drk - women in science I realize that the subject of women and science is a bit of a digression from the major focus of Hugh's paper, but like Theresa Zielinski, I feel that this is a useful opportunity to pursue an important subject. A few years ago, I read a paper by Matthews and Odom [Matthews, D.B. & Odom, B.L. (1991). Intrinsic motivation: a major factor in student academic achievement. National Association of Laboratory Schools Journal, 15(3), 32-42]. I was able to locate the reference but not the paper, but I seem to remember that they had evidence that female middle school students respond better to intrinsic motivation than extrinsic motivation. Intrinsic motivation is oriented towards curiosity, learning challenging tasks, novelty, etc.; it emphasizes the process rather than the outcome. Extrinsic motivation is characterized by classroom incentives: grades, recognition, results. Male students, although also responding to intrinsic motivation, responded better to extrinsic motivation than female students. Whether this is an example of "nature" or "nurture" is another issue entirely, and one not addressed by the authors. When I read this, it struck me that when science is taught in a traditional way, the reward system associated with scientific study is more often extrinsic in nature. Science classes are very competitive, often focus on obtaining the correct answer and/or laboratory result, and deemphasize process--all extrinsic motivations and likely to either discourage or turn off someone more intrinsically oriented, particularly if that student is already facing a lack of role models and/or some form of implicit or explicit discrimination. Social sciences and humanities are less likely to focus on a single right answer or experimental result, present theories that are more open to interpretation, and are more likely to interest an intrinsically motivated student. The irony is that in scientific *research*, process becomes much more importan, and the "right" answer is more often a matter of interpretation. So although perhaps very well suited to *do* science, an intrinsically motivated person might not ever survive the courses necessary to arrive at a point where this is an option (an argument for introducing research as early as possible in the curriculum). I think most of us would agree that many of the problems with the way science is often taught (as opposed to the way science is done) is its over-emphasis on algorithms, "right" answers, competition, and facts at the expense of understanding, process, and cooperation. I am hopeful and optimistic that this is changing (through the efforts of the present conference community!) and that with the changes in approach to science education, it will become more appealing to female students. (Sorry this got so long!) Doris Doris R. Kimbrough Chemistry Department Box 194 University of Colorado at Denver Denver, CO 80217-3364 dkimbrough@castle.cudenver.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Jun 1997 21:31:43 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Paper 6: TOH. Development of simulations On Mon, 30 Jun 1997, to2 wrote: > I asked if there were general-purpose simulation > engines that are suited to the simulation of modestly large > ensembles of interacting particles and which could be used > to simulate the solution process and the common colligative > properties. > > Richard Pendarvis suggested I use Hyperchem for this purpose. > Can Richard or anyone else provide a published reference > describing such an application? I had no idea these programs > were so versatile. > There is some information available at the Hyperchem web site http://www.hyper.com (I think) There were a couple of simulations included with Hyperchem Lite (We can't afford the standard version) You might also email them at info@hyper.com. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 07:47:01 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper 6: JNS - Authority of Simulations James Stevenson writes: > Somewhere along the line the student must accept the "authority of the > simulation" in order for learning to take place. The student must believe > that this is how beams, atoms or molecules actually behave in the world in > order for the simulation to be effective. Where does this acceptance enter > the process and by what means? > 1. Can we rely on the "if it's on TV (computer, web, etc.) then it must be > true" axiom (or adage)? The student is making the same leap of faith as he or she does when reading an equation in a textbook. If I discover the Tafel equation in a text then, not being an electrochemist, I have to accept that it is probably right (in the sense of being correctly turned into print), unless I want to go through a proof. In the same way, when I sit infront of a simulation, it is an act of faith that those who put together the simulation did a decent job, so that what I see is, as far as possible, a reasonable representation of the physical world. Errors of course creap into text books, and simulations may be wrongly coded. If the simulation is of behaviour with which we are familiar (ideal gas law, for example), it may be simple to spot an error. If the simulation is of more complex behaviour (such as oscillatory behaviour in a stirred-flow reactor), it's not so easy. Just as we continue to read books despite the occasional mistake, I believe we should not be disuaded from using simulations by concerns over how they can be shown to be correct. Nevertheless, it is clearly vital that every effort is made to ensure that a simulation behaves as one would expect, before it is dropped into the lap of students. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:12:03 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: paper6 - hmc - women in science Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > Hugh, although I think your paper would have been as strong or stronger if > section 4.3 were entirely absent, your remarks in this section created an > opportunity for exchange of ideas and the start of a multilog among us. It > is clear to me that we are all concerned about making science and endeavors > accessible to all. By probing the issues involved we may be able to > breakdown some of the barriers in and around us. Most of us know Theresa, as I do, only through her comments on e-mail conferences and lists. Nevertheless, I feel I know something of her as a person. It seems to me entirely in character that Theresa should have written at length on women in science, and I agree with nearly all she has to say. My words were not intended to be quite as pessimistic as her interpretation of them suggests, though. My concern about the lack of women in chemistry is very real. I recognised, when writing paper 6, that the small section on this topic would be likely to provoke as much comment as anything in the paper, and I am encouraged that it has done so. At Oxford we have around 700 honours chemists in residence at any one time. We have a higher proportion of women undergrads than most chemistry departments (around 40%). We have, with industrial sponsorship, for several years run women-only workshops to encourage them to develop their interest in science. We have worked hard to develop the interest of school children of both sexes in science at an early age. And yet ..... still I find that my most talented chemists are generally male. This is profoundly depressing. At Oxford, because the teaching is tutorial-based, one gets to know students particularly well, and too frequently a difference in what I called "scientific intuition" seems to be apparent. I'm sure that virtually every institution really wants the best students, whatever the sex; certainly we do. If there are steps that the high school or the university can take to ensure that talented girls have just as much success as talented boys then we must try to implement them. I'd be most interested to hear what programs other schools and universities have to ensure that male and female students are equally successful. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:36:57 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Discussion of Paper 6 begins Sorry this a bit behind, Theresa asked about good articles on women in science. I quote: >I noticed when reading the paper a brief passing mention of why aren't there >more women in science. >I would like to know if you have references to studies that address this >issue that you would be able to share with the participants of this >conference? As you know this is an important issue and perhaps using >computers in teaching chemistry may impact on the outcome of the number of >women scientists we produce in future. I know of two papers that are real eye-openers. 1. "Letting Girls Speak Out About Science", Dale Baker & Rosemary Leary, Journal of Research in Science Teaching, Volume 32 (1), PP. 3-27 (1995). Some highlights--these young women (grades 8 & 11) repeatedly requested more group work and more discussion. Straight lecture was not discussed warmly by the women in the study. They did not want to be passive learners. Many of the grade 11 girls have unclear ideas about careers in science. They do not see the connection between mathematics and science. They do not have a clear idea of what scientists are and what they do. Many of the women in the study expressed ideas of wanting to help people and animals--therefore they see biological science (and related careers) as much more relevant than physical science and related careers. 2. "The Loss of Women From Science, Mathematics, and Engineering Undergraduate Majors: An Explanatory Account", Elaine Seymour, Science Education, Volume 79 (4), PP. 437-473 (1995). This article presents a well focused description on why women leave SME majors. It is a must read for anyone wishing to gain insight into why bright young women lose confidence in their ability to "do science" and switch majors. Highlights: Women do not switch from SME to other majors because they aren't prepared, or don't make adequate grades. They perceive the teaching methods used in undergraduate SME courses as impersonal and uncaring (p. 444). The women sometimes feel alienated (p. 453,454), and complain about the inner stress of feeling unwelcome. They do not understand the culture (p. 455). They want a personal relationship with faculty (this comes out when they discuss large classes, P. 464-5). Grades = approval from faculty (p. 466-7). And finally, failure to encourage young women is taken as discouragement (p. 467). To sum up the conclusions of this study: Many women arrive on our campuses hoping to establish a personal relationship with faculty. When that does not occur, women in SME classes tend to feel that they are performing badly and begin to doubt their ability to "do science" regardless of how well they are actually doing in their courses. Comments? Marcy Hamby Towns Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 09:13:42 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: paper6 - hmc - women in science More on the discussion of women in science. I sent a message yesterday that did not get delivered so I hope that it goes through. I suggested two articles to read for those wishing to know more about the loss of women from Science, Mathematics and Engineering (SME) majors. Hugh wrote > >And yet ..... still I find that my most talented chemists are >generally male. What do you define as being "talented"? This is profoundly depressing. At Oxford, because >the teaching is tutorial-based, one gets to know students >particularly well, and too frequently a difference in what I called >"scientific intuition" seems to be apparent. Can you give an example where you were dissappointed in a female student's lack of "scientific intuition"? > >I'm sure that virtually every institution really wants the >best students, whatever the sex; certainly we do. If there are >steps that the high school or the university can take to ensure >that talented girls have just as much success as talented >boys then we must try to implement them. Again, I would suggest Elaine Seymour's paper as a place to start. It is a real eye-opener. The expectations that women have for their experiences in undergraduate science may be at odds with the actual environment they encounter. > >I'd be most interested to hear what programs other schools >and universities have to ensure that male and female students >are equally successful. > Purdue University does some fantastic things in its engineering programs to ensure the success of women in engineering. They have programs that could be characterized as out of the mainstream curriculum. They include mentoring programs, a women in engineering seminar, sections of residence halls for women in engineering, and groups (Society of Women Engineers for example) dedicated to connecting and mentoring women. In Chemistry, Iota Sigma Pi, the National Honorary for Women in Chemistry, is very active. It is one of the main ways that women in chemistry, both graduates and undergraduates connect. The group provides mentoring, and organizes two large outreach projects each year. Last year their "Expanding Your Horizons" career conference reached over 300 middle school aged girls and over 100 parents and teachers. At Ball State we are approaching the attraction and retention question from the curriculum side by working on our gateway courses in chemistry, computer science, geology, and physics. We have just begun our initiatives, so I don't have any results to report. However, we have a group of dedicated enthusiastic faculty, and that is half the battle. Marcy Towns Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 10:45:41 -0400 From: "Harry E. Pence" Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, TJZ comments on #6 Margaret Rossiter from Cornell Univ. has done a lot of research on how women have fared in the sciences. I particularly liked her book, "Women Scientists in America: Struggles and Strategies to 1940." I think that she has a second book that carries the story forward closer to the present, but I don't have that reference available. I will also recommend one of my favorite books, "Rosalind Franklin and DNA", which gives a different side to the discovery of DNA. Cordially, Harry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence INTERNET: PENCEHE@ONEONTA.EDU | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta OFFICE: 607-436-3193 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 FAX: 607-436-2654 | | http://snyoneab.oneonta.edu/~pencehe/ | | \\\//// | | (0 0) | |_______________OOO__(oo)__OOO____________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 11:13:54 -0400 From: Michael Chejlava Subject: Paper 6 MJC women in science I have run across several good sources of info about women in science. The first is the Journal of College Science Teaching, which is published by the NSTA and come with a $50 or $60 membership. In the Mar/Apr 1992 issue there was an article by Elaine Seymour titled "Undergraduate Problems wih Teaching and Advising in SME Majors - Explaining Gender Differences in Attrition Rates". JCST also now has a regular column about women in science dealing with everything from retention to dealing with a family life and a teaching position at the same time. I would highly recommend this journal to anyone in higher ed sciences. C & E News also has frequent articles on gender issues. As to the "scientific intuition" I recall reading an article, though I don't have the reference, that put some of this on differences in play activities. Boys tend to play games involving physics and build things, while girls tend to play with dolls and do other interpersonal activities. This is not alwys true since I remember a female research student who when it came time to build some apparatus asked, "Where are the tools?" and proceded to show that she probably knew more about how to use them than I did. Unfortunately this is not the normal case. I am making sure that my neice gets plenty of building toys and she has built a robot and worked with electronics kits. -- Michael Chejlava Department of Chemistry & Environmental Science Lake Superior State University Sault Sainte Marie, MI ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 14:26:01 -0700 From: Jim Diamond Subject: Re: paper6 - hmc - women in science On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, Marcy Towns wrote: > More on the discussion of women in science. > Purdue University does some fantastic things in its engineering > programs to ensure the success of women in engineering. They have > programs that could be characterized as out of the mainstream curriculum. > They include mentoring programs, a women in engineering seminar, sections > of residence halls for women in engineering, and groups (Society of Women > Engineers for example) dedicated to connecting and mentoring women. In > Chemistry, Iota Sigma Pi, the National Honorary for Women in Chemistry, is > very active. It is one of the main ways that women in chemistry, both > graduates and undergraduates connect. The group provides mentoring, and > organizes two large outreach projects each year. Last year their > "Expanding Your Horizons" career conference reached over 300 middle school > aged girls and over 100 parents and teachers. Marcy, I think those are great ways to support women in science. I'd like to find out more about the National Honorary for Women in Chemistry. Practically ALL of our majors are women, and I'd like to find ways to keep each one of them interested in a scientific career. Best Wishes, Jim Diamond, chair Chemistry Department Linfield College jimd@calvin.linfield.edu McMinnville OR 97128 (503)-434-2471 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:02:34 -0500 From: Brown Larry Subject: paper6 - LB: women in science The discussion of women in science classes has managed to coax me out of lurking mode, as it is something I have been working on this summer. Hugh wrote: > >I'd be most interested to hear what programs other schools >and universities have to ensure that male and female students >are equally successful. > In addition to extracurricular programs like those Marcy described, I think that we need to look seriously at what happens in the classroom. I am involved in a large project to redesign our engineering curriculum, and one of our goals is to improve retention of women and minorities. This has been a very contentious issue with many faculty members, and has produced memorable comments like (to pick on a subject other than chemistry), "I just teach physics, not physics for women. It's not like there's a different Gauss's law for women." Even among those faculty who believe sincerely that improving retention of women is a valid goal (and I'm afraid that is not everyone), there is a mixture of uncertainty and uneasiness as to how best to go about it. One way that we have tried to address this without some of the political overtones is to shift the focus away from gender (or ethnicity) and onto learning styles. We have found that many faculty are much more willing to consider changing some classroom practices to accomodate "abstract sequential learners," for example, than they might be to accomodate women. This is NOT because our faculty are opposed to women succeeding in their classes. But people really struggle to identify changes they might make that would benefit women, perhaps in part because they can point to examples of women who have done just fine the way things are. In the case of the learning styles, there is a growing literature on the types of activities that appeal to different styles. And because the whole idea is new to most faculty, there aren't as many preconceptions to overcome. Our hope is that if we can shape the curriculum so that it is more effective for people with different learning styles, then we might do a better job in appealing to women and minorities, too. There is at least some literature to support this idea, but it is too soon to say if this is working for us. Another feature of our new curriculum is an emphasis on teaming, and based on a focus group study we have some evidence that this is helping women to succeed. It seems that some women gain confidence and learn to assert themselves in their teams (groups of 4), and then they are able to generalize this to other settings. LB Larry Brown Department of Chemistry Texas A&M University College Station TX 77843 brown@chemvx.tamu.edu phone (409) 845-3755 fax (409) 845-4719 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Jul 1997 18:49:46 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper - 6 DR: The Tutorial System and AI In response to my question about the use of AI in Chemistry, you stated > . . at Oxford the emphasis is on college-based teaching by chemistry > tutors. I have no first hand knowledge of the Oxford tutorial system. However, as I understand it each student has a tutor who he meets with privately each week (?). The student carries out an independent course of study directed by the tutor. 1. Is this correct? 2. Is most of the study library or textbook based? 3. Does the use of Internet resources play a significant role in the process? Is most of the study library based? 4. Does such a system preclude the use of expert systems as an evaluation instrument and a tool which can assist the student? Donald Rosenthal Department of Chemistry Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13699-5810 ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:01:23 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper - 6 hmc: The Tutorial System and AI Don Rosenthal writes: > In response to my question about the use of AI in Chemistry, you stated > > . . at Oxford the emphasis is on college-based teaching by chemistry > > tutors. > I have no first hand knowledge of the Oxford tutorial system. > However, as I understand it each student has a tutor who he > meets with privately each week (?). The student carries out an > independent course of study directed by the tutor. > 1. Is this correct? Broadly, yes. Students have a normal program of lectures and practical work, covering the kind of material they would meet in any honours chemistry course. Each students belongs to one of 28 colleges, which have their own chemistry tutors, who are generally also faculty in the University chemistry department. The student meets with at least one tutor every week, on a 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 basis, to discuss the course. > 2. Is most of the study library or textbook based? Tutors set work for each tutorial. Typically, I would set 10-15 hours work per week for my students in physical chemistry. This work is in addition to any work involved in lectures, labs and classes. The work set by tutors requires a fair amount of book work, typically. For example, if I set work on statistical mechanics, students would be expected to become familiar with some of the terminology, relevant equations, derivations and so on, and then do some suitable questions. The work is entirely under the direction of the tutor, and although it naturally relates to the overall course, different tutors approach the teaching in different ways. Thus, while students at one college might be doing thermodynbamics with their tutor, at another college students in the same year might be studying organic steroechemistry, and not tackle thermodynamics until much later. [Does this sound like chaos?! I know it's an odd system. I worked in North America for eleven years, so I appreciate how curious the system at Oxford and Cambridge seems. Nevertheless, the very individualized instruction works.] > 3. Does the use of Internet resources play a significant role in the > process? Is most of the study library based? Internet resources are generally little used for tutorial work. I think the two main reasons for this are: 1. The Oxford course is challenging, but very much chemistry-based. We teach little industrial chemistry for example. As a consequence, almost all the material the students require is in published texts. 2. Oxford has exceptional libraries, since every college has its own library, and the central library (The Bodleian) is a copyright library, so it automatically receives a free copy of every single item published in the U.K. In all, there are about 80 libraries, many of them highly specialized. > 4. Does such a system preclude the use of expert systems as an evaluation > instrument and a tool which can assist the student? No, it doesn't. Were it that a third or a half of all chemistry students here would use expert-system based learning, I'd be very interested in developing it. However, our students are under quite a bit of pressure. Oxford's three terms are only eight weeks long. During that short time, they must learn and understand as much as students elsewhere learn in ten or eleven week terms. They must also cope with pushy tutors like me who expect them to put plenty of effort into their tutorial work. If tutors were to encourage students to use CAL instead of doing tutorial work, computer-based instruction could take off, but tutors generally feel that they are providing the best possible education for their students by giving tutorials. (Whether or not that is so is beside the point. The point is, that students do not have enough spare time to take part in another type of learning, in addition to lectures, labs, tutorials and - in most subjects - classes). Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:01:23 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper - 6 hmc: The Tutorial System and AI Don Rosenthal writes: > In response to my question about the use of AI in Chemistry, you stated > > . . at Oxford the emphasis is on college-based teaching by chemistry > > tutors. > I have no first hand knowledge of the Oxford tutorial system. > However, as I understand it each student has a tutor who he > meets with privately each week (?). The student carries out an > independent course of study directed by the tutor. > 1. Is this correct? Broadly, yes. Students have a normal program of lectures and practical work, covering the kind of material they would meet in any honours chemistry course. Each students belongs to one of 28 colleges, which have their own chemistry tutors, who are generally also faculty in the University chemistry department. The student meets with at least one tutor every week, on a 1 to 1 or 1 to 2 basis, to discuss the course. > 2. Is most of the study library or textbook based? Tutors set work for each tutorial. Typically, I would set 10-15 hours work per week for my students in physical chemistry. This work is in addition to any work involved in lectures, labs and classes. The work set by tutors requires a fair amount of book work, typically. For example, if I set work on statistical mechanics, students would be expected to become familiar with some of the terminology, relevant equations, derivations and so on, and then do some suitable questions. The work is entirely under the direction of the tutor, and although it naturally relates to the overall course, different tutors approach the teaching in different ways. Thus, while students at one college might be doing thermodynbamics with their tutor, at another college students in the same year might be studying organic steroechemistry, and not tackle thermodynamics until much later. [Does this sound like chaos?! I know it's an odd system. I worked in North America for eleven years, so I appreciate how curious the system at Oxford and Cambridge seems. Nevertheless, the very individualized instruction works.] > 3. Does the use of Internet resources play a significant role in the > process? Is most of the study library based? Internet resources are generally little used for tutorial work. I think the two main reasons for this are: 1. The Oxford course is challenging, but very much chemistry-based. We teach little industrial chemistry for example. As a consequence, almost all the material the students require is in published texts. 2. Oxford has exceptional libraries, since every college has its own library, and the central library (The Bodleian) is a copyright library, so it automatically receives a free copy of every single item published in the U.K. In all, there are about 80 libraries, many of them highly specialized. > 4. Does such a system preclude the use of expert systems as an evaluation > instrument and a tool which can assist the student? No, it doesn't. Were it that a third or a half of all chemistry students here would use expert-system based learning, I'd be very interested in developing it. However, our students are under quite a bit of pressure. Oxford's three terms are only eight weeks long. During that short time, they must learn and understand as much as students elsewhere learn in ten or eleven week terms. They must also cope with pushy tutors like me who expect them to put plenty of effort into their tutorial work. If tutors were to encourage students to use CAL instead of doing tutorial work, computer-based instruction could take off, but tutors generally feel that they are providing the best possible education for their students by giving tutorials. (Whether or not that is so is beside the point. The point is, that students do not have enough spare time to take part in another type of learning, in addition to lectures, labs, tutorials and - in most subjects - classes). Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:55:30 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: paper6 - LB: women in science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Larry wrote: > >One way that we have tried to address this without some of the political >overtones is to shift the focus away from gender (or ethnicity) and onto >learning styles. A good article on Learning Styles is "Reaching the Second Tier--Learning and Teaching Styles in College Science Education" by Richard Felder, Journal of College Science Teaching, March/April 1993, pp. 286-290. A more in depth text on teaching and learning styles and how they interact is "Teaching With Style" by Anthony F. Grasha, Alliance Publishers: Pittsburgh, PA. Marcy > Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:01:51 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: paper6 -ISP - women in science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim wrote: I'd like to find >out more about the National Honorary for Women in Chemistry. Practically >ALL of our majors are women, and I'd like to find ways to keep each one of >them interested in a scientific career. Iota Sigma Pi is the National Honor Society for Women in Chemistry. Try contacting Linda Brazdil at John Carroll University in University Heights, OH. I think Linda may now be the president and she can get more information to you. Marcy > Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:56:51 EDT From: "JAMES E. STURM" Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, TJZ comments on #6 A few days ago the statement was circulated that to say in a letter of recommendation (to grad school or for employment) that a female student was a "hard worker" is a "kiss of death." I'm more than uncertain of what is meant by this "kiss of death" implication whether it applies to a male or female candidate. No obligation is implied, but I'd appreciate a clarification. Jim Sturm jesd@lehigh.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:54:05 -0500 From: "Dr. Neil Kestner" Subject: Paper 6- Women in Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Another issue which maybe related is that while about 40% of our graduate students are women, most research intensive universities get maybe 2-3 applications from women out of 100-200 total for a tenure track job, despite attemts to seek out such candidates. As a former chair I worry about this a good deal. What are we doing wrong? Where are they going? What must we do to change? At meetings of Chemistry Chairs we used to discuss this at length, but I have heard of no summary of this issue. Neil Neil R. Kestner Louisiana State University, Department of Chemistry Baton Rouge, LA 70803 phone: (504)-388-1528 Fax: (504)-388-3458 home page: http://kestner.chem.lsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:47:13 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, hmc comments on #6 Jim Sturm writes: > A few days ago the statement was circulated that to say in a letter of > recommendation (to grad school or for employment) that a female student was a > "hard worker" is a "kiss of death." I'm more than uncertain of what is meant > by this "kiss of death" implication whether it applies to a male or female > candidate. No obligation is implied, but I'd appreciate a clarification. I would regard such a recommendation as being thoroughly positive. If someone is described as a "hard worker" I wouldn't add mentally "...but stupid" any more than I would to assume that "brilliant student..." might be followed by "...but lazy". "Hard worker" to me is a definite plus, whether it applies to a woman or a man. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:10:23 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Paper 6- Women in Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Neil wrote: >Another issue which maybe related is that while about 40% of our >graduate students are women, most research intensive universities >get maybe 2-3 applications from women out of 100-200 total for a >tenure track job, despite attemts to seek out such candidates. > As a former chair I worry about this a good deal. What are we doing >wrong? Where are they going? What must we do to change? At meetings >of Chemistry Chairs we used to discuss this at length, but I have heard >of no summary of this issue. It was addressed in C & E News, June 10, 1996,pp. 8-15. The article does a good job of addressing some of the key issues to women Ph. D.'s who are in academia or are looking for positions in academia. Marcy. Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:51:50 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: Discussion Women in Science, TJZ comments on #6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Jim, As I interpreted the article this would apply to males and females. One colleague wrote me personally and indicated that his experience was different from what I wrote. This is interesting because the interpretation of the reader is important to consider in addition to the intention of the writer. An innocent phrase may be interpreted in a completely different light. Theresa At 09:56 AM 7/2/97 EDT, you wrote: >A few days ago the statement was circulated that to say in a letter of >recommendation (to grad school or for employment) that a female student was a >"hard worker" is a "kiss of death." I'm more than uncertain of what is meant >by this "kiss of death" implication whether it applies to a male or female >candidate. No obligation is implied, but I'd appreciate a clarification. > > Jim Sturm > jesd@lehigh.edu > Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:13:05 -0700 From: Doris Kimbrough Subject: Re: Paper 6- Women in Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >Another issue which maybe related is that while about 40% of our >graduate students are women, most research intensive universities >get maybe 2-3 applications from women out of 100-200 total for a >tenure track job, despite attemts to seek out such candidates. > As a former chair I worry about this a good deal. What are we doing >wrong? Where are they going? What must we do to change? At meetings It is asking a great deal of a woman to join a faculty in a department where she will be the only woman or one of a very few women. Departments who want to recruit women might want to consider the following issues (and I am sure there are others!) 1) Family leave policy. Starting a family sets one back professionally, particularly if one is a woman. I took only short maternity leaves, had excellent child care, and still lost about a year on the research front for each of my two children. Of course I wouldn't trade them for the time lost, but it did make tenure track even more stressful. Working through college and graduate school does not exactly leave time for having children. If a woman then does a post-doc, she has often postponed childbearing into her 30's. Looking at the 5 - 7 years during tenure track when she is expected to devote all her time and energy to her profession might make an industrial position more appealing. I was lucky in that my institution allows you to stop the "tenure clock" for one year if you give birth or adopt a baby. (Presumably it extends the same option to men--I would hope so! I also would like to see the policy extended to other family circumstances, e.g. caring for an aging parent or a sick or injured child or spouse.) I know that there are many institutions that are not so family friendly. The tenure system was designed to both protect the academic freedom of the faculty and provide a trial period to demonstrate one's ability to teach and do research effectively. It seems that the latter goal could still be accomplished with a more flexible system. 2) The role of women as mentor. My department has more women faculty now, but part of the time I was here, I was the only one. This made me a magnet for female students, both chemistry majors and nonmajors. These students came to me for advice, with problems (often not academic ones), and sometimes just to chat. While I enjoy and am more than willing to fill this very important mentoring role, I felt like my male colleagues were often unaware of how time consuming this can be. We need to recognize that women faculty in science, math, and engineering departments play a very important informal service role in this respect and they should get formal credit for it. Doris Doris R. Kimbrough Chemistry Department Box 194 University of Colorado at Denver Denver, CO 80217-3364 dkimbrough@castle.cudenver.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 12:51:10 -0500 From: Marcy Towns <00mhtowns@BSU.EDU> Subject: Re: Paper 6- Women in Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To add to Doris's and Neil's comments: > >1) Family leave policy. Our institution also allows tenure track folks to shut off the tenure clock for one year. However, that does not guard against boorish behavior such as being told that you are off maternity leave and now you need to show folks that you are "back in the saddle again" by doing X, Y, and Z. Some institutions are very family friendly while others definiately are not. Women who intend on starting families during their first years in the academia would be well advised to discover if their institution is friendly towards families. Some companies have much more helpful policies towards families. They offer maternity leave, the Family& Medical Leave act is used in the case of sick children & spouses when long term care is needed (broken bones, operations, etc.), and it is also used for taking care of elderly parents. Some companies offer on-site daycare and sick child day care that is so important for both men and women who want to have an interesting career and a family. Few universities recognize this as a concern. In general, some companies have realized that workers are not productive when they are worried about the care of their children. So, they have answered the call and done something about it. It's no mystery why the CEO of Lilly was honored by working mother magazine. Lilly built an on-site day care facility which was immediately filled to the brim and currently has a waiting list. > >2) The role of women as mentor. The mentoring issue is interesting in that it is a 360o function. Having other women faculty to mentor new women faculty is a great help. In addition I agree with Doris that as a woman faculty person you do end up with LOTS of female students darkening your doorstep. My spin on it is that its been great for my research! Marcy. Marcy Hamby Towns Ball State University Cooper Hall Muncie, IN 47306 765-285-8075 765-285-2351 (FAX) 00mhtowns@bsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 11:24:33 -0700 From: "Pastorek, Christine" Subject: FW: paper 6-cp-women in science-what we can do to help MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain > Physics at Oregon State has directed an excellent program over the > last five years that was initially funded by the NSF, Division of > Human Resources Development, Model Projects for Women and Girls. I > worked on the planning committee for several years and gave a poster > at the NORM ACS meeting last summer on some of the outcomes from the > 1995 symposium. Approximately 120 undergraduate women from colleges > and universities around the Pacific Northwest are selected to > participate in a weekend workshop on graduate school. All aspects of > graduate school are covered during large and small panel discussions, > laboratory tours, a poster session and a formal banquet with a > national keynote speaker. This has been extremely successful based on > the feedback from the participants. At the end of the program, there > is an opportunity for students to learn how to conduct a similar > operation at their home institution. I would suggest contacting Ken > Krane, Chair of Physics and originator of this symposium: > kranek@physics.orst.edu > http://www.orst.edu/mc/coldep/scienc/physic.htm > > Certainly mentoring is a particularly strong way to get to all > students and new faculty involved in a department. This not only > benefits those in the minority. I was glad to "hear" someone mention > Iota Sigma Pi. At Oregon State, we are the Niobium chapter of ISP and > on campus there is a very strong Association of Women in Science group > under the direction of Dr. Ann Brodie (email: > brodiea@ccmail.orst.edu). Both of these organizations are involved in > frequent meetings, workshops, and other activities with local schools > providing a coherence and communication within the group -as well as > providing something for the public. What really helps at the > University level is to have women faculty members as role models-women > students seem to be drawn to working with women faculty. Maybe this is > "safety in numbers" or similar approaches to problems or maybe since > women are often times the "new faculty", their research is the more > current than the norm and thus more attractive to budding researchers, > etc., but from my limited experience it seems to be the case. > ------------------------------ > Note: Chapter formation for ISP is handled by the National Vice > President, currently: > Dr. Susan Marine > Centre College > 116 Blue Grass Pike > Danville, KY 40422-9207 > email: marine@centre.edu > ------------------------------ > Christine Pastorek, Ph.D. > Department of Chemistry > Oregon State University > Gilbert Hall 153 > Corvallis, OR 97331-4003 > Voice: (541) 737-6732 > FAX: (541) 737-2062 > internet: pastorekc@chem.orst.edu > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:35:02 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 6 - DR: Tutorials and the Tutor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT In your response (2 July 1997 8:01 Re: Paper - 6 hmc: The Tutorial . . .) you stated: > The student meets with at least one tutor every week . . to discuss the > course. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ 1. Does this imply that a student may have more than one tutor and more than one tutorial? 2. How many students and how many different topics will a tutor have at any one time? Typically, will he also be giving lectures? ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > . . if I set work on statistical mechanics . . > The work is entirely under the direction of the tutor, and although it > relates to the overall course . . . ^^^^^^ 3. Will the work be the same in each statistical mechanics tutorial that you are conducting during the same time period? 4. Would students have attended a series of lectures on statistical mechanics before the tutorial (or after the tutorial) or is the tutorial given in lieu of the lectures? What are the advantages of such a system? What are the disadvantages? 5. Is the tutorial entirely tutor directed? Suppose a student is interested in more fully persuing a particular topic, can and will the tutorial be diverted to a study of this topic? 6. Does the student have a choice of tutors and topics? 7. How much of the educational process occurs via the tutorial system and how much via lectures? Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University Potsdam NY 13699 ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 11:58:01 +0000 From: Tim Brosnan Subject: Re: Paper 6 - TB: Tutorials and the Tutor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" One way of answering some of the questions about Oxford tutorials is to tell of my experiences of being on 'the receiving end' as a chemistry student (albeit a few years ago!). Perhaps I should add that I was considered (and considered myself) an 'average' (or slightly above) student who did not work particularly hard - certainly not one of the true 'high flyers'. So my experiences are more likely to be those of a 'typical' Oxford student. >1. Does this imply that a student may have more than one tutor and more > than one tutorial? >2. How many students and how many different topics will a tutor have > at any one time? Typically, will he also be giving lectures? At my college there were three Chemistry tutors, one each for Inorganic, Organic and Physical chemistry. All were full-time tenured lecturers with substantial research experience (yes they also gave lectures to the larger body of students and supervised research students and projects). Each tutor gave on average about 10 tutorials per week. >3. Will the work be the same in each statistical mechanics tutorial that > you are conducting during the same time period? In my first two years, each pair of students had one tutorial per week - with a different tutor each term. We had to prepare an essay on a set topic for each tutorial. The same topic was set for each pair of students but since the point was for us to explore ideas and offer our thoughts, the precise content obviously varied. >4. Would students have attended a series of lectures on statistical > mechanics before the tutorial (or after the tutorial) or is the tutorial > given in lieu of the lectures? Not necessarily either. Lectures are optional (or were in my day) and many of us stopped going to lectures courses if their quality was not thought to be high enough, preferring to use the tutorials as a basis for reading and study. This was especially true in the second and third years. >What are the advantages of such a system? I feel that the great advantage of the system is that one is forced to THINK. Having to explore an area, sort out what you think about it and then having your ideas questioned by a sympathetic expert really made me think hard and imbued a number of habits that have proved very useful - e.g. not taking anything for granted, questioning assumptions, searching for the essence in synthesising large amounts of information. How successful I now am in applying these habits is at best an open question but acquiring them was a crucial part of my university experience, one I find that is not shared by a number of the students I come across from Universities where they are 'taught' (I use the term with some reservation) by means of mass lectures and large seminars. > What are the disadvantages? The key potential problem is that the system is hugely dependent on the skill, knowledge and sympathy of the tutor. If s/he is not truly interested in the development of their students and/or does not have a good enough grasp of their subject to engage in discussion at an appropriate level over a wide range of topics then the whole thing falls down. Perhaps I was lucky, but I think my experience was relatively normal. >5. Is the tutorial entirely tutor directed? Suppose a student is interested > in more fully persuing a particular topic, can and will the tutorial > be diverted to a study of this topic? Yes but.... This was most evident in the third year - see below. In the first two years the topics were essentially tutor chosen. >6. Does the student have a choice of tutors and topics? > In the third year we had. The structure of the course was such that in the final taught year students had to prepare for two 'specialist' papers (in addition to 6 generalist papers). In THIS year, tutorials were individual and linked closely to our areas of interest - although tutors had an input to ensure that the range of tpopics covered was appropriate. Where these areas of interest were outside the specialist experitse of our college tutors they found people from other colleges to take one or more tutorials. Returning to point (5), I remember one case in the third year where my 'Inorganic' tutor suggested a topic and gave me a journal with an appropriate article to start off my thinking. On reading it, I found it not very exciting but was much taken with another article in the same journal on an area of surface chemistry so I spent the week reading around this topic. This subsequent tutorial was therefore on the topic I had chosen. >7. How much of the educational process occurs via the tutorial system and > how much via lectures? > This depends on what is meant by 'the educational process'. In my case the central educaitonal process was learning how to think about key chemical concepts - and this was almost exclusively due to the tutorials (plus some of the lab work). If 'soaking up knowledge' is regarded as the main educatinoal process, then it was more balanced although (certainly by the end of the course) again most of this was got through the reading done for tutorials and other private study (of ideas that interested me). Sorry if this personal case history is a bit rambling - I hope it gives a flavour of what goes on. The system is expensive in tutor time and commitment but where it works (as in my case) it is irreplaceable. However I worry that with cuts in university budgets it may not survive. Tim Tim Brosnan Science and Technology Group Institute of Education University of London 20 Bedford Way London WC1H 0AL U.K. t.brosnan@ioe.ac.uk http://www.ioe.ac.uk/hgm/tb.html Tel: +44 (0)171 612 6779 Fax: +44 (0)171 612 6792 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 08:59:29 +0000 From: Patricia Ann Mabrouk Subject: Iota Sigma Pi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Concerning Iota Sigma Pi, for further information contact: The National Historian Dr. Anne Sherren Department of Chemistry North Central College P.O. Box 3063 Naperville, IL 60566-7063 (708)420-3491 fax: 708-420-4234 e-mIl: ATS@nccseq.noctrl.edu You may also contact: Sr. Frances Crean Saint Xavier University 3700 West 103rd Street Chicago, IL 60655 (312)298-3517 fax: 312-298-3517 Prof. Patricia Ann Mabrouk Department of Chemistry 111 Hurtig Hall Northeastern University Boston, MA 02115 617-373-2845 fax: 617-373-8795 pmabrouk@lynx.neu.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:39:47 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper 6 - HMC: Tutorials and the Tutor > In your response (2 July 1997 8:01 Re: Paper - 6 hmc: The Tutorial . . .) > you stated: > > The student meets with at least one tutor every week . . to discuss the > > course. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^ > 1. Does this imply that a student may have more than one tutor and more > than one tutorial? Yes; students at Oxford always have three chemistry tutors, who are usually "Fellows" of the college (i.e. usually a University lecturer or Professor in chemistry). A student will have tutorials in each of the three main branches of chemistry, with each Fellow adopting a different area. > 2. How many students and how many different topics will a tutor have > at any one time? Typically, will he also be giving lectures? Chemistry students have on average a little more than one tutorial per week, with its associated work (which, as I noted before, might be about 10-15 hours). Most commonly students will have tutorials in one branch of chemistry for four weeks, then move onto a second branch of chemistry for the next four, and so on. Most College tutors are also University lecturers. As tutors, they take responsibility for a particularly area of chemistry for the students' entire undergraduate career. They may be teaching just one year of students at the college (perhaps 3 to 15 students, depending on the college), two years or three years of students. Since tutorial teaching is fairly time-consuming for tutor as well as student, usually one teaches each year in rotation, rather than all years at the same time. > > . . if I set work on statistical mechanics . . > > The work is entirely under the direction of the tutor, and although it > > relates to the overall course . . . > ^^^^^^ > 3. Will the work be the same in each statistical mechanics tutorial that > you are conducting during the same time period? I am tutor at two colleges, and the tutorial timetable differs between the two. I might thus be teaching one pair of 2nd-year students statistical thermodynamics, and a second pair high resolution spectroscopy. Apart from timing differences like this, tutors also may take different approaches when working with different students. The work set for a tutorial, and the style of the tutorial itself, will, as you would expect, be different when dealing with a pair of potential first class students than when working with a less advanced student. > 4. Would students have attended a series of lectures on statistical > mechanics before the tutorial (or after the tutorial) or is the tutorial > given in lieu of the lectures? What are the advantages of such a system? > What are the disadvantages? The tutorials are definitely not in lieu of lectures. The students will attend as many lectures here as in most other universities. However, fairly frequently a tutorial will precede the corresponding lecture course. This is not because such a sequence is always desirable (though it often is), but because it is impossible to delay every tutorial until after the relevant lecture course. Advantages? ** The very personalized teaching allows tutors to provide help to students which may be more effective than class-based teaching. ** The ability of tutors to choose which elements of a course they want to set as tutorial work means that course work can be moulded to fit the needs of each student. ** The regular tutor-student meetings ensure that tutors quickly become aware if the student is falling behind in work or understanding, and can attempt to do something about it. ** Students benefit by being able to establish a very personal working relationship with at least three faculty-level staff. ** The tutorial is a very satisfying way to teach, and can be very effective for students. Disadvantages? ** A very expensive method of teaching. Oxford takes 190 honours chemists per year, so there are perhaps 300 tutorials per week during term. Taking into account the time required by tutors to prepare for tutorials, mark work, etc this represents a considerable number of FTE Professors. ** Just as some lectures are poor in any university, so it is the case that occasionally tutorials are poor. ** The system is demanding on students. Those students who cope well with the course can gain a great deal; poorer students may feel that the extra demands required in preparing work for tutorials each week are not justified. ** The system takes time and effort on the part of faculty members who have lectures to give, labs to demonstrate and research groups to run in addition to giving tutorials. (Having said that, the lecturing load in Oxford is lighter than in a typical North American University). > 5. Is the tutorial entirely tutor directed? Suppose a student is interested > in more fully persuing a particular topic, can and will the tutorial > be diverted to a study of this topic? This is a matter entirely for the tutor. My object in giving tutorials to to develop the student's understanding of chemistry. If that means that a tutorial which starts on high resolution spectroscopy drifts off into nuclear spin statistics, then into ortho and para hydrogen, then into kinetic vs thermodynamic control of reactions, that is fine. If the student is gaining understanding of physical chemistry then the tutorial is serving its purpose. > 6. Does the student have a choice of tutors and topics? Essentially no choice of tutor, though if there appears to be a personality clash a new tutor will be found. In essence, though, a student's tutors are those associated with his or her college. At the first and second year level the choice of subjects is generally fixed by the tutor (the old "we-know-what-you-need- to-understand" syndrome). At the third year level I have both a set of topics which I expect to cover with the students, and also open tutorials which will cover whatever topic(s) the students propose. However, preparation by the student is still expected for the latter to ensure that tutorials are as productive as possible. > 7. How much of the educational process occurs via the tutorial system and > how much via lectures? In terms of time spent by the student it is probably about 50/50. Tutorials tend to address some of the more difficult topics, so have a rather greater importance for, say, statistical mechanics than for classical kinetics. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:09:09 -0500 From: Carolyn Sweeney Judd Subject: Re: Paper 6 - TB: Tutorials and the Tutor MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hugh, Somehow tutors have a negative image, often being perceived as in indication of a student having difficulty understanding a concept that is clear to the other members of the class. I was delighted to read Tim's account of being at Oxford as a student with a tutoring system that is not part of the remedial mentality. Comments were from >Tim Brosnan >Science and Technology Group Institute of Education University of London >20 Bedford Way >London WC1H 0AL >U.K. Carolyn Judd cjudd@tenet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:23:41 -0400 From: "Harry E. Pence" Subject: Using "hard working" in recs TJZ comments on #6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Once a student came to me to thank me for writing such an excellent letter of recommendation. She had been told that my letter was mainly responsible for her acceptance at a Physical Therapy School. I had said she was a good, solid, hard-working B student. Obviously, to the people who read this letter, my comment was very favorable. The thing that makes writing letters of recommendation so interesting is that the people on the other end often think you are writing coded phrases, to avoid problems when (or if) the student reads the letter. Often the "code phrases" exist only in the imagination of the reader, but that doesn't stop people from being hurt. The options are either we publish a dictionary of code phrases (which defeats the purpose of using them) or the people who read and write the letters not try to be too cute and look for all sorts of subtle meanings. If anyone is unfulfilled because h/she can no longer exercise his or her creative gifts of analysis, I suggest that the time is better spent trying to understand the U.S. Congress. That should cure anyone! Just a thought, Harry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence INTERNET: PENCEHE@ONEONTA.EDU | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta OFFICE: 607-436-3193 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 FAX: 607-436-2654 | | http://snyoneab.oneonta.edu/~pencehe/ | | \\\//// | | (0 0) | |_______________OOO__(oo)__OOO____________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:42:20 -0400 From: Andy Jorgensen Subject: Re: Paper 6- Women in Science MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" At 10:54 AM 7/2/97 -0500, Dr. Neil Kestner wrote: >Another issue which maybe related is that while about 40% of our >graduate students are women, most research intensive universities >get maybe 2-3 applications from women out of 100-200 total for a >tenure track job, despite attemts to seek out such candidates. > We are what might be termed a mid-level chemistry department (19 faculty, 50 graduate students, 5-7 completed PhD's a year). Although my last experience on a search committee was 4 years ago I believe that we get quite a number of female applicants for faculty posts. 3 of our last 4 tenure track hires have been women. This difference from that seen by the poster may reflect both the research demands of the top schools as well as some inertia which can be overcome. But this then leads to the conditions that help keep women in faculty positions and facilitate their success. The "family-friendly" policies already raised are important - and probably rare (no tenure time out here that I have heard about). Mentoring female science faculty members is a great challenge that I know we could improve upon. Andy ***************************************** * Andy Jorgensen, Ph.D. * * Calendar Conversion Project Director * * Associate Professor of Chemistry * * Suite ED 1025 * * University of Toledo * * Toledo, OH 43660 * * (419) 530-7256, fax -7257 * * andy.jorgensen@utoledo.edu * * http://www.utoledo.edu/www/sem-conv/ * ***************************************** -------------------------------- Date: Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:44:05 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper 6 - hmc: Tutorials and the Tutor > Hugh, > Somehow tutors have a negative image, often being perceived as in > indication of a student having difficulty understanding a concept that is > clear to the other members of the class. I was delighted to read Tim's > account of being at Oxford as a student with a tutoring system that is not > part of the remedial mentality. Since tutorials are so much an integral part of the teaching at Oxford (and Cambridge) one no more regards them as "remedial" than one regards laboratory work as remedial. They are just another axis in the teaching effort. As you imply, the word remedial does have rather negative connotations. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 14:18:19 -0400 From: scott donnelly Subject: Paper 6 sjd "Reponse to Chris Pastorek" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Chris Pastorek writes: >A lot of discussion goes to how to improve the lecture system-make >it more entertaining, educational, etc., etc. I would like to contribute to this statement. The sophomore organic chemistry class I teach meets twice a week for 75 minutes. As we all know there is a good likelihood that some students will dose off during this extended time period. In an attempt to keep their attention I, as much as possible, bring in glassware or reaction setups (not routinely used at the sophomore level) of various designs and degrees of complexity. Students are asked what types of reactions could be performed in such an apparatus and how one assembly has advantages over another under certain conditions. Students find the shapes and designs of some of the glassware fascinating (Soxhlet extraction apparatus, distillation fraction cutter, Schlenk filtration, vacuum manifolds, etc). Whether this "lecture activity" is entertaining or educational I do not know. It's probably not relevant. But I have found that students are intrigued by the glassware. I would like to think that this in some way has increased or at least maintained their interest in organic chemistry. Cheers. Scott D. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Scott Donnelly Professor of Chemistry Arizona Western College 9500 South Avenue 8E Yuma, AZ 85366-0929 email: aw_donnelly@awc.cc.az.us phone: 520 344 7590 "What's more important- the curvature of the graph or its color? It's a no-brainer." -Economist unknown ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 1997 17:14:42 -0500 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: tjz - women i science Dear Colleagues I would like to call your attention to a paper published in the May 22, 1997 issue of Nature (pages 341-343) by Christine Wenneras and Agnes Wold. This paper describes a study of the peer-review system of the Swedish Medical Research Council, one of the main funding agencies for biomedical research in Sweden. The conclusion is that peer reviewers cannot judge scientific merit independent of gender. Female achievement is routinely underestimated across the board. The study clearly lays out the statistical variables and finds that a woman scientist must be 2.5 time more productive than a male scientist in order to achieve the same competence score. This corresponds to 3 extra papers in Nature or science or 20 extra papers in other high quality journals. This report is for a country, Sweden, which is recognized as a leader in equal opportunities for men and women. It seems to me that there is more to this question of women leaving science and not reaching higher professional ranks than throwing balls as a child or working harder in college and graduate school. Is it possible that very good female scientists give up because they cannot be 2.5 or more times as productive as a male colleague in order to achieve the same level of recognition? Are letters of recommendation for women indeed equal to those written for men? Are the women who choose to do science for a career, those who have jumped the hurtles of adolescence and college, given the opportunities to succeed? I don't know the answers but for sure we must address the problem. Sincerely Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry, Niagara University Visiting Professor of Chemistry, U. Wisconsin - Madison -------------------------------- Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 08:02:31 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: hmc - women in science Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > > Dear Colleagues > > I would like to call your attention to a paper published in the May 22, 1997 > issue of Nature (pages 341-343) by Christine Wenneras and Agnes Wold. This > paper describes a study of the peer-review system of the Swedish Medical > Research Council, one of the main funding agencies for biomedical research > in Sweden. The conclusion is that peer reviewers cannot judge scientific > merit independent of gender. Female achievement is routinely underestimated > across the board. The study clearly lays out the statistical variables and > finds that a woman scientist must be 2.5 time more productive than a male > scientist in order to achieve the same competence score. I have not read this paper - but will. In the meantime, I'd be intrigued to know whether only male scientists underestimate the achievements of their female colleagues, or whether the sex of the members of the reviewing panel makes no difference. If male panels are tougher on women, we might attribute the effect to concious or unconcious bias. If both men and women are tougher when assessing female scientists the explanation is rather more difficult to find. Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright University of Oxford hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:05:57 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: hmc - women in science Dear Colleagues I did not reply to Hugh's question below because I was traveling over the weekend. Since we are in recess I can make a short answer. The paper from nature was placed in my hands by my husband the morning I wrote the paragraph below. I thought that it was important enough to share with you all immediately as no one else had mentioned it up to that time. This goes to show the importance of collegial interaction and the ease with which things can be shared via internet communication. Now to Hugh's question. I just looked over the paper and in the middle of the next to last column the authors clearly state that "the small number of women among the peer reviewers (5 out of 55) and their uneven distributions among the MRC's committees made a statistical analysis of their scoring behavior impossible." The authors go on to say that some other studies indicate "that female evaluators may be more objective" but they then go on to add that they are "not confident that a simple increase in the percentage of women reviewers would solve the problem..." I would like to make two comments about this issue and then move on to other things. First, as a scientist I think that when there is an interesting problem or puzzling observation I want to examine it more closely. Now that I know this problem and some of its subtleties I can work on it and maybe make a contribution toward its solution. Second, I did not raise this issue to cause discomfort among any of my colleagues. This is a problem we all must face, share and work on. I am not immune to social pressures and the differences in my male and female students. I too must constantly look beyond the surface behaviors to see the scholar within. Stereotypes need to be broken day by day and they resurface like weeds in a garden. So although it may seem that I have made things toasty for some of my colleagues I must point out that I too have felt the warmth of this discussion and it has had an impact on me. We are in this together and need to work together to make a level playing field for all. Hugh, you did a service with that one brief comment in your paper. It opened up a good discussion and provided an opportunity for all of us to reflect upon opening opportunities for all of our students. I think the outcome will be very positive in the long view. Finally, thanks for all the support from all of my colleagues. Sincerely Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail)