------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:34:44 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Opening Comments for Discussion Greetings, Now comes the fun part. I am looking forward to the discussion. A large number of interesting questions have been presented in the past week, and the discussion should be very interesting. I'll start things off by replying to the questions posted last Monday. I have tried to come up with a format to organize my responses. My first impulse was to post a single message, but it was to long. Then I thought about replying to each message, but that was to many. So I have sorted the questions into categories. I came up with the following: Technical Stuff Time and Content Students Problems Testing Hopefully this will help develop several discussion threads. Since the messages are still rather long, I will also post them as HTML documents. This should help readers with awkward e-mail software. These documents are available at: http://www.science.widener.edu/~bramer/chemconf/reply/ The submitted questions and comments have been edited. I have tried to identify the source for all the questions and all previous messages are marked with a > at the beginning of the line. If I have dropped the ball on any questions, please feel free to pick it up. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:34:47 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Techincal Details Technical Details: Subject: CD-ROM At 10:54 6/2/97 -0500, Gerald Morine wrote: >1. In the Student Access section, it says the students >can check out CD-ROM's. Are these the Saunders General >Chemistry CD's or have you "burned" your own CD's? >If you have not put your presentations on CD's, >what are your thoughts on the pro's and con's of >doing so? Yes, this is the Saunders CD-ROM that accompanies the textbook. I requested extra desk copies from our sales rep, and placed several on reserve. For next year I have requested permission to place some of the animations on our web server for easier access. One less activation energy barrier for the students. Although I have access to a CD-ROM writer, I have not used it. It is easier and less expensive for me to post material on the web. In addition, I can continually modify and update the course web page. If I tried to create a CD-ROM, it would have to be "put to bed" at the beginning of the semester. I think this is the greatest disadvantage of a CD-ROM. The web based front end is much more flexible and allows me to do things in April that I would not have dreamed of in January. Doing all of this on the web requires a VERY large disk quota on our servers. The capacity of a CD-ROM and the speed are big advantages. This can be achieved on the web if you have a lot of disk space and are working through a local network. Just HTML documents and gif images, don't take up much disk space. But if you start adding animation, and data files the amount of disk space increases dramatically. To provide some context, my web site contains about 20 MB of HTML and image files, 100 MB of animations, and 150 MB of spectral data. We have just upgraded our server so I now have a 1.5 GB quota. If my plans for the fall semester come through (approval from publishers to use various multimedia resources) I will use most of this space. The other problem with CD-ROM's on our campus is that the large computer labs don't have CD-ROM drives. I selected the web as a distribution medium because all the computers in the student labs have access. At this time, the Web is a much easier for my students. It also allows me to leverage a small commitment from academic computing (loading Netscape and a couple of plugins) into a very flexible resource. SUBJECT: HTML At 17:11 6/2/97 +0600, Brian M. Tissue wrote: >Are there tools for displaying or printing multiple HTML files? Not that I am aware of, although it would be nice. It takes a lot of effort to produce effective HTML documents. Right now HTML seems to be relatively static with the emphasis on plug-ins and java. These provide lots of flexibility, but they do require more work to configure. Right now I don't really expect to see anything like what Brian has described. One interesting development is that Microsoft seems to be jumping onto the web bandwagon. I have seen the Office '97 version of powerpoint, and it will convert a powerpoint presentation into a set of HTML documents. Subject: Netiquitte and Plagiarism. At 16:04 6/2/97 -0500, Lynn Carlson wrote: >3. I'm still a newcomer to this kind of use of technology. Often I see >someone else's hard work on a web site, and would like to link it to mine >for use by my students. What is the "netiquette" observed by people using >other's work? Just adding a link feels like plagiarism or pirating, >somehow. If I am making a link to another resource, I try to clearly label it so that a user will understand where they are going and who is responsible for the material. Once you connect to a new site, it is usually obvious. Since I consider plagiarism unacceptable from my students, I try to clearly identify sources. If I find a substantial resource that I really like and plan to use in a specific context (not just a "bookmark") I usually ask for permission and let the author know what context I am using it. In general, everyone I have contacted is happy to have the traffic and appreciate knowing that their material is useful. Subject: Course Management Software At 19:01 6/2/97 -0400, Bill Jarvis wrote: >I just attended a workshop on >TopClass, a course management system (CMS) >Anyone use anything like this? Thomas G. Chasteen replied: >We have been using WEB COURSE IN A BOX since last year here at Sam Houston >State University. It does what TopClass does (in the main). For the web to be used in more classes, it needs to be easier to develop content. Programs like this make it easier to set up and maintain a course web page. For it to be useful, however, probably requires "selling" the concept to a group of faculty. For something like this to catch on will require a critical mass. Subject: Plug-in vs Java At 09:10 6/3/97 +0100, Henry Rzepa wrote: >Scott has gone the plug-in route (full of pitfulls, ie Netscape vs >Internet Explorer, Windows vs Mac vs Unix etc). What are his >views regarding Java? I think Java is a great concept, but it has a couple of disadvantages. The greatest is problem for me is that the student computer labs at Widener are all running Windows 3.1. Although there is a beta version of Netscape for windows 3.1 that supports java applets, I have not found it to be very stable. So the bottom line is that my student's can't use it yet. The other major factor is content. Although java is an exciting concept, I have not found very many java applets that accomplished what I want to do for teaching. In addition, I have not learned how to produce my own content in this format. For now I'll keep watching to see what happens. The current advantage for plug-ins is that they do what I am trying. I use quicktime movies (since I have found lots of them that seem useful), I use pdb files (which I can create using Hyperchem), and I use acrobat documents (since I can generate these as easily as printing something). So I will continue to use plug-ins. They do what I want and they are installed in the student labs. I don't have to worry about the compatibility problems, because most of my audience is on campus so I have everything configured for them. >On a more specific point, he uses the proprietary Nuts program >to view NMR data. What are his views on using eg JCAMP-DX >(MIME Type chemical/x-jcamp-dx). We use Bob Lancashire's >JCAMP Viewer (see http://www.ch.ic.ac.uk/vchemlab/DATABASES/main.html ) >but admittedly, this does not handle 2D datasets. For distributing material to a broad audience, a freely distributed viewer like JCAMP-DX is the ideal solution. I have discussed a variety of ideas with Bob Lancashire and I use JCAMP for a other types of spectroscopic data. I think this is great. The problem with NMR data is that I did not have an easy way to export JCAMP files until recently. The latest version of Nuts will export JCAMP files and I have converted a set of them to try out: http://science.widener.edu/svb/nmr/jcamp.html The other consideration is what I want to accomplish. For my students in advanced spectroscopy I don't want them to look at processed data. I want these students to start with the raw FID so they need a full blown NMR data processing program. Nuts just happens to be the one that I use, so that is the format for the data files. I have added some of the spectra for other's convenience. I have experimented with other formats, (replica, acrobat, gif, jpeg) but I am glad that I can now export to jcamp files. Subject: URL's >PS I routinely include URLS in e-mails (for my own records >as well as the benefit of the recipient) because my e-mail >program can resolve them in a single click. Is this standard >taught practice amongst educators? ) For users fortunate enough to have e-mail software, this it is a great trick. A couple of comments to help make this work: Place the URL is "in the clear" without any periods at the end. Add the http:// Although the browser will use it as a default, other programs need this to identify that it is a URL. For example: science.widener.edu/~svanbram/. Won't work with my software because of the period. and since the http:// is missing it will not even try to load this into a browser. Subject: Number of Computers At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >2 - With a large general chemistry class, I would expect this to put a >strain on your computer lab facilities. How many computers are available >on your campus for students to access your WWW site? We have two large open computer labs on campus (50 computers each). These are frequently crowded and I know that students have a difficult time getting on in the evenings. There are also several smaller computer labs (the science division has one lab with 12 computers, but it is only open from 7:00am to 5:00pm). The university is hoping to reduce the pressure on the large labs by wiring the dorms this summer so students will have access from their own computers. For upper division chemistry majors we have a small computer lab (3 computers) and provide the students with keys so they have 24 hour access. This has worked out very well from the student's perspective and for the faculty. I think it is great to be able to discover a new program and load it for the students the same day. Subject: Netscape vs Explorer >3 - Why Netscape rather than Internet Explorer? Without going off on a diatribe about Microsoft.... The short answer is that when I started using the web, Internet Explorer was not available. When academic computing finally installed a web browser in the student labs (spring '96), Netscape supported the features I wanted. So Netscape was installed in the labs. Netscape is free for academic use, so price is not an issue. Since it is now the standard on campus, I will continue to design my pages to work with Netscape. I do have a copy of Internet Explorer on my computer, so I try to check that documents work with it (when I remember). The bottom line is that I use Netscape because I used Netscape. (Of course I also use WordPerfect because I used WordPerfect, but I don't think that this is the place to discuss religion. ;-)) Subject: PDB files At 20:18 6/2/97 -0700, Charles Sundin wrote: > Each I time I open up one of your PDB files, the image is a wireframe >image. I would imagine that this is difficult for the novice to really >see so you would then switch to another display format. >If I am correct on that assumption, is there a pedagogical reason for >doing so. It would appear that it would be more efficient to have the >file open up in the desired format. Yes it would be better to have them open in the desired format. When I designed these pages I did not know how to do that, so I just used the default. And since Chime was not installed in the student labs, I did not put much effort into this. Chime was just installed in the student labs a couple weeks ago, so now it is time to rewrite the documents and add the appropriate code to take full advantage of the plug-in. Subject: Training > (At the beginning of the term I could imagine that you would want to >go through the various displays a number of times until student felt >comfortable in using various display formats.) They don't seem to have much difficulty with this. In class, they see what it looks like and I point out a couple of details. The web browser is such an improvement in delivering material that the "software activation energy" is much lower. Once everything is installed and configured (which I admit is not trivial), this is easy to use. From the student's point of view, they just click on anything that is blue. Subject: Slide Shows > I like your use of successive GIF images for a slide show >presentation. I have been reluctant to use them for organic mechanisms >because of the number (I could envision 10-20 per mechanism) and the >time it would take to load as well as disk space to store. > > However, it still is a better format than what I am using. > >http://www.ems.uwplatt.edu/sci/chem/fac/sundin/363-7/image/l637-12b.gif > >Do you have any student data to convince me that it is worth the time, >effort, disc space, etc. No solid student data, since I have only tried this out a couple of times. Organic reaction mechanisms would be an ideal application. The disk space is almost trivial (especially compared to an animation). A single gif image of line art is only a 5k file. As a result, they load fast, especially over a local network. As for the time required to put this together....... It will depend upon the software you have access to and how well you can use it. I spent a lot of time playing with the atmospheric chemistry cycle sequence before I was happy with it. But now that I have worked out the "concept", with some careful planning it would probably take about an hour to put together a 15 step reaction mechanism. My suggestion is to give it a try and see if you like it. Some things to consider when you plan this: 1. Decide ahead of time what size you want the image, if all the figures are not exactly the same size it won't look good. 2. Work out the details to create the gif images. Keep in mind that the sequence of steps used will effect the clarity of the final product. The ability to create layers in a graphic image is very useful for this. Each addition to the image is another layer. The series of images is generated by selecting which layers to display. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:34:56 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content Time and Content Subject: How much time At 19:38 6/2/97 -0400, Mary L. Swift wrote: >How much time is required to prepare materials for one lecture? This varies widely. A simple lecture (locate a couple animations, develop an outline, and create a couple links) might take an hour. A complex lecture (generating images, finding resources, trying out a new format) may be several day's (or a week's) work. For these larger projects (like the visualizing molecules lectures), It usually takes an afternoon to work out the "concept" and get a start on the content. Then additional time is to fine tune the format and work out all the content. I will not pretend that this all happens overnight. It is possible to sink any amount of time into development. But there is no need to do it all at once. Start with the part you believe will have the greatest impact. >one homework assignment? I developed most of these last summer. Writing the questions does not take much longer than it would on a word processor. I write the first draft in WordPerfect, save it as HTML. Then I fine tune the results with an HTML editor. If you want to add more complex formatting or graphics it takes longer. Homework solution sets typically take an afternoon. Many of them are acrobat documents since it is easier to generate complex formatting and equations this way. I hope that the time I invested last summer will pay off in the long term. I learned a lot working through all this, and now I can easily make revisions. >How do you select topics for this treatment? Is it based solely on the >chemistry or your experience with "what students find difficult"? The decision usually comes down to an idea. Not unlike having an idea for a demo to use in class. When I am planning my lectures, If I think "Oh, I could do X and that would be a great way to explain this topic" and I have enough time, I try it. An important part of this is the technology available. For example, after noticing that students have a difficult time visualizing the three dimensional structure of a molecule, when I saw what rasmol could do I had and idea. I do spend a fair amount of time learning what is available and looking for ideas (trying out demo software, looking at the flyers that publishers send, and looking at web sites). On-line discussions like chemconf and chemed-l have been very useful for me. I am still kind of wet behind the ears as a teacher, but I am starting to develop a sense for what topics are difficult. This should help me focus my efforts in the future. Subject: Animation Sources. At 22:52 6/2/97 -0400, Diane Krone wrote: >Where do you find your sources for animations and quicktime movies? I see >the search and review of material as being very time consuming. I use the Saunders Interactive General Chemistry CD-ROM on a regular basis. I also find resources on the web, usually by stumbling across them. Subject: Time At 11:31 6/3/97 -0600, Margaret Asirvatham wrote: >Science courses, especially chemistry and physics, require a lot of drill >and practice for success. Are you providing this experience with a >reasonable time investment by your students? This is an excellent question. What I have observed, is that students are surprisingly selective. They work very hard to find and use the resources that they believe are valuable. They are not always successful in making this distinction (for example; I am always amazed that students will stand in the hall for two hours copying an old exam in a display case). I have found that posting solutions to problems from class and homework is very useful. I can control the timing so they need to start with an honest effort. But they seem willing to try more challenging problems if they know that I will post a very through solution to the problem. It seems to reduce the frustration, and students frequently come in to ask questions about the solutions. Subject: multimedia vs traditional At 10:54 6/2/97 -0500, Gerald Morine wrote: >2. In the Introduction, the author writes that >multimedia "needs to do more than traditional >presentations." Some parts of Dr. Van Bramer's >materials could be done equally well on paper >and/or using an overhead projector. Since >preparing web materials is time consuming, should >a web-site be restricted to only those items that >are "value-added"? I.e., where the computer does >something extra? I still use the blackboard extensively. The things I try to consider to decide how to present something is if using multimedia presents some type of "value added" during the lecture and if it will be useful for students to have access to the multimedia material outside of lecture. And part of it is a hope that some of these resources will be useful to students and faculty at other schools. Based upon my student's response, comments I receive from students at other schools, and comments from other teachers and faculty it has been a worthwhile effort for me. Although this is a question everyone must answer for themselves, as long as I enjoy this (because it is interesting, challenging, and rewarding) I'll do it. This balance will be different for every faculty member and every class. The bottom line is that you will have to use your professional judgement to decide the answer to this question. What I hope to do with this presentation, is to highlight some things I have tried and thought were successful, to share some ideas. Subject: Multimedia vs Traditional At 16:04 6/2/97 -0500, Lynn Carlson wrote: >2. I feel that many topics taught in chemistry, especially those that >show dynamic relationships, can be taught exceptionally well with some >of the applications you describe. However, what evidence is there in your >classes, or from anyone else's reading >this, that the learning taking place with the technology used is "better" >or "more effective" or more complete that the same learning presented in >more traditional, low-tech ways? Please understand, I believe this >to be true, but I wonder if anyone has any hard evidence on the matter. Although this is a good question, I don't think I can answer it. This is very similar to a recurring thread on chemed-l. I do not expect to see some miraculous change in my student's learning. I am just trying to find the best ways I can to effectively communicate with my students and to help them learn chemistry. Using multimedia is a piece of the puzzle, just like using a demo. I think one of the advantages to doing this on the web is that students have greater access. What I can tell you is that most students "liked" it. They responded very well to it. They used this as a resource to study. There are enough different learning styles, that I am trying to add another tool to help them learn. Subject: Time At 14:51 6/4/97 -0400,Linda Sweeting wrote: >I have been working on putting organic chemistry on the web. You have >inspired me to be more courageous. But - where do you find the time??? >The lecture outlines look straightforward but assembling all the other >stuff is much more time-consuming than preparing lecture notes. also, I >have a tendency to get so involved in the technology that I forget >what it was I was teaching!!! I guess it will just take time. Yes it certainly does take time. Start with an idea, and go from there. Don't try to do it all at once. And listen to your students, if you do something that works they'll tell you. If you do something that does not work, they will ignore it. Listen for the silence. I find the time because I enjoy it and find it challenging. It is my hobby (when I am not sailing). Subject: Development At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >1 - You note that you used this approach for the past year. What have you >done in previous years? How long did it take to put all the material >together? I would suspect that this is the culmination of years of trial and error. I started developing these ideas during the spring '96 semester (The same time Netscape was installed in the campus computer labs). Before that I used anonymous FTP and e-mail to distribute resources to students. The web made this much easier for the students and allows me to do much more. Most of this material was developed over the past three years. As I learn about how to do it, it gets easier. At 13:50 6/2/97 EDT, Terrell Wilson wrote: >Is it worth it? For me and my students, yes. For you and your students, is a question you will have to answer. Hopefully this paper has given you some ideas. Try it out and see how it works. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:35:02 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Students Subject: Students At 11:31 6/3/97 -0600, Margaret Asirvatham wrote: > Do your students really find the time to access all the useful >information that you have compiled and documented? The answer varies for each student. Some use it extensively, others not at all. Subject: Students >What incentives do you offer them, especially the unmotivated >students, to use your materials? For students to use any resource they need to know two things. That they can do it and that it is worthwhile. One incentive I used was to post a copy of an old exam on the web page for the first two weeks. This motivated students enough that they learned how to use this. After that the motivation was just that the material was (I hoped) useful. I think the novelty also helped. Subject: Students At 13:50 6/2/97 EDT, Terrell Wilson wrote: >. How many students are you working with? About 50/semester in general chemistry. Subject: Students >2. You say,"2/3 look at each lecture." Is there any evidence that those 2/3 >are doing any better than the other 1/3? Unfortunately, I don't have any way to determine which 2/3 this is. As a result I don't have a way to measure any improvement (or to distinguish if this is the source of their improvement). Based upon student comments, use is not restricted to the best or to the worst students. It would be very interesting to correlate learning styles to student use. >3. I am a little uncertain what percentage of your lecture material is on >Netscape, and what is something else. Is it 100% Netscape? This varies dramatically throughout the year depending upon the topic and the amount of time I have to develop material. Primarily Netscape is a front end to provide access to material. In class I use it to present multimedia material but I still spend a lot of time at the board using chalk. It has had a significant effect on my lecture style. This material frequently serves a roll similar to a lecture demo. Subject: Cost >4. This one is underhanded, and I know it, but how does the cost of >developing this course compare with the cost of just sending everybody to the >bookstore to buy a $40 textbook? They all still buy the textbook (which is now closer to $80). The cost of developing the materials would be almost impossible to account for so I won't even try. Doing it right requires a lot of my time and good computer access for the students. Subject: access and questions At 10:54 6/2/97 -0500, Gerald Morine wrote: >3. As I understand it, this web-site is to be used >by the instructor in lecture and then by the students >to review the material later. Are there any parts >that are only available through the web-site, such >as material helping students do their homework >assignments or explore topics in greater depth? >Would having computer-exclusive access be undesirable, >by diminishing the role of the in-person instructor? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:35:08 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Problems Subject: Problems At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >6 - Finally, what do you do when the power goes out :-) Seriously, what have been some of the biggest problems you've had using this approach to lecture? I think the greatest obstacles were technical support questions. A good working relationship with computer support is invaluable if you are trying to push the envelope. The bottom line is that things won't always work out the way you plan. So don't loose your cool, and have a backup. I remember being very frustrated after spending a Sunday afternoon planning this amazing and spectacular (or so I thought) multimedia presentation for Monday morning. I got into the class and could not get a network connection. Someone had decided to add a new memory management software program that wrecked havoc with the TCP/IP stack. Since the problem fell between the cracks of responsibility (fixing it required cooperation between Instructional Media Services, Academic Computing, and Network Support) it took about 6 weeks before the connection was reliable. And finally getting this done finally required me going over someone's head. It was a frustrating and unpleasant experience. I think that the important lesson from this is that it is important to have clearly defined responsibility for this type of equipment. The other problem that I have had is getting software loaded in the academic labs. Since they are constantly in use, the software is only changed during breaks. This is part of the reason I went to web based material since it allows me to add material without any change to the laboratory configurations. With the right plug-ins it is possible to run a large selection of software. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 00:35:11 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Testing Subject:Testing At 13:32 6/2/97 -0500, George R Long wrote: >My question - Has the way you test the students changed since you began >using the multimedia ? Do you use the multimedia material at all during the >exams. I guess I worry that the students get tested in static black and >white, when they are taught in multimedia (oops, thats a comment, not a >question) At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >4 - I too am interested in how you test the students. I would think that >your approach would be most compatible with out-of-class examinations, but >then, particularly in large general chemistry classes, collaboration >becomes a problem. I'm looking forward to hear more about this one. At 19:38 6/2/97 -0400, Mary L. Swift wrote: >Have you thought about 'testing' on-line? The short answer is no. Although, the questions have gotten me thinking. It would be interesting to show a video clip or a molecular structure on the projection system during an exam and ask questions about it. It could also be useful to question students about the on-line content. I have been reluctant to do this the first year because of questions about access and fairness. Although just over the past year this has changed significantly. At the beginning of the school year I did have some resistance from students who thought it was unfair that I would expect them to use this resource. By the end of the year, I would have gotten the opposite response if I had taken it away. Any one else have some suggestions or ideas about this? Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ---------------------------------------- In the event you wish to sign off of CHEMCONF, please send the one line message: signoff chemconf This message must be sent from the e-mail address used to sign on. DISCUSSION SCHEDULE FOR SESSION 1 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ June 9 and 10 - Discussion of Paper 1 June 11 and 12 - Discussion of Paper 2 June 13 and 16 - Discussion of Paper 3 June 17 and 18 - Discussion of Paper 4 June 19 and 20 - Discussion of Paper 5 If you need help, please send an e-mail message to: Tom O'Haver at to2@umail.umd.edu and not to CHEMCONF ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:53:56 -0400 From: "Timothy L. Pickering" Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? I had the same experience described by Tom Kenney, and share his views 100%. An atempt to print the Adobe file for paper #2 locked up our office printer and required a system shut down and re-start to get things back on line. Certainly not worth it for a cartoon. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech ============> ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:01:31 -0400 From: "Timothy L. Pickering" Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? Mike Epstein wrote: >Now I'll admit that putting the dripping blood, animated icons, and color >jpgs was not necessary for the content of my paper (I'm glad you didn't >have Internet Explorer 3.0, or you would have gotten background music as >well). But it was *FUN* ..... Hopefully it made it more enjoyable for >some. > >I'm sorry that you had to "download, install and re-configure", but most >browsers can handle the animated icons, color jpg files in my paper and >the pdf files (of paper #2). This is not my idea of FUN! >And you could have downloaded my pages as a text file and not looked at >the *effects*. I am not aware of any method that will allow one to download an Adobe .pdf file in text format. Would appreciate learning how to do that. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:12:49 +0100 From: Dwaine Eubanks Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? I do understand Tom Kenney's frustration with pdf files. A couple of years ago, when I began to realize that half the stuff on the Web that I wanted was in pdf format, I decided that I had some catching up to do. Things continue to change, as the Web is becoming animated and interactive. These enhancements give us power to communicate that we've never had before, and with technies all over the world continuing to extend Web capabilities, the bar will be raised higher and higher. Messages such as the one I am now writing are fast becoming equivalent to stone-age paintings. I. Dwaine Eubanks Director, ACS DivCHED Examinations Institute Professor, Department of Chemistry Clemson University Clemson SC 29634-1913 eubanki@clemson.edu Voice: 864-656-1394 FAX: 864-656-1250 http://chemistry.clemson.edu/ChemDocs/eubanksd.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:28:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Week 1 email archives available on Web page The email archives of Week 1 of ChemConf '97 are now available on the conference Web page http://www.inform.umd.edu/EdRes/Topic/Chemistry/ChemConference/ChemConf97/ under the Schedule section. The link is labeled "Week 1 Archives". It is a plain ASCII text file. I have edited out the "remove me" messages. If anyone objects to having their messages displayed in this way, I will be glad to remove your messages. I plan to do this for each week of the conference. You may find these archives useful if you miss a section of the conference or need to refer back to an earlier message. Tom ChemConf listowner and Web guy -------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry and Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation The University of Maryland at College Park to2@umail.umd.edu http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 08:26:32 -0500 From: "Dr. David Ritter" Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? At 10:51 PM 6/6/97 -0400, you wrote: >While discussion should be limited at this point, since I am responsible for 75% of Tom's complaint (blinking bullets, dripping blood and full color photos), I do need to respond now. > >The point of having a conference on the WWW is two-fold..... But it was *FUN* It has not been fun for me to get several of these papers. Far from *FUN*, at best, it has been tedious. David Ritter Department of Chemistry Southeast Missouri State University c617scc@semovm.semo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:52:07 -0400 From: "Harry E. Pence" Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? This discussion is focusing on what I believe to be one of the crucial issues with developing web pages and delivering courses by the web or the internet. Which is most important, pedagogy or technology? New technologies provide instructors with impressive new capabilities for teaching. Animations, simulations, and even simple pictures of molecules may well make important contributions to the educational process. The use of these capabilities is complicated, however, by the fact that the end users represent a broad spectrum in terms of both the available technology and expertise. The trick is to determine a level of technology which provides the greatest payback, while minimizing the number of individuals who are unable to use the technology or else find it to be so difficult to use the technology that they elect to simply not participate. My experiences with students support the idea that they are the ultimate pragmatists; the time they will devote to any course is limited, and the they will elect to invest that time only when there is a clear retun in terms of the course work and grade. I've been surprised to find that even some of the students who I consider to be real tech-heads will apply the same criteria. They want the material delivered clearly and directly, and are only willing to invest extra time if this will produce significantly improved results. I recently saw a paper that was studying how students use the WWW. It included videos of the students as the pages were loading and as they worked with the material. When the students encountered a page that loaded slowly (usually because of graphics), they rapidly began to complain, and within what I would consider a short time they began to vocalize the possibility that, "It just can't be worth waiting this long!" I was amazed at how rapidly they became frustrated, but I shouldn't have been. I would argue that we must be careful to use our student's (and our colleague's) time as efficiently as possible. When deciding to use some new technology, we must be sure to balance the educational benefits against the extra time that will be involved. Unless the benefits are clearly worth the extra time, we're just playing unproductive games. Adding some special effect because it has no benefit except that we think it's cute just doesn't make it. Cute may be the last four letter word in the English language. The situation is particularly difficult now, with different types of browsers available that are by no means identical. I've already had the experience of finding an interesting web site that I couldn't read because someone has used a different brower and pushed it to the limit. As has been said many times, the difference between the leading edge and the bleeding edge is small but very important. This is not intended to be a criticism of any of the papers in the section. I'm sure that each author has carefully considered these questions when making decisions about what technology to use. I would just like to urge everyone to continually think about these problems when desiging web pages and preparing course material. As our colleagues in the English department say, "Always write for your audience." If you are writing only for your own amusement, don't be surprised if you are the only audience. Harry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence INTERNET: PENCEHE@ONEONTA.EDU | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta OFFICE: 607-436-3193 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 FAX: 607-436-2654 | | http://snyoneab.oneonta.edu/~pencehe/ | | \\\//// | | (0 0) | |_______________OOO__(oo)__OOO____________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:05:42 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? Today Harry P. wrote an interesting note. I found two sentences particularly thought provoking in that the represent a dichotomy to me. The sentences are: >New technologies provide instructors with impressive new >capabilities for teaching. and that students want > the material delivered clearly and >directly, and are only willing to invest extra time if this will produce >significantly improved results. > Here are my questions. By making presentations are we teaching? By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? I would be interested reading what others think and how they resolve the dichotomy. Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:39:29 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - SVB: Students List, Apparently part of this message was lost when I posted it last night. I am resending the entire message. Scott Van Bramer Subject: Students At 11:31 6/3/97 -0600, Margaret Asirvatham wrote: > Do your students really find the time to access all the useful >information that you have compiled and documented? The answer varies for each student. Some use it extensively, others not at all. Subject: Students >What incentives do you offer them, especially the unmotivated >students, to use your materials? For students to use any resource they need to know two things. That they can do it and that it is worthwhile. One incentive I used was to post a copy of an old exam on the web page for the first two weeks. This motivated students enough that they learned how to use this. After that the motivation was just that the material was (I hoped) useful. I think the novelty also helped. Subject: Students At 13:50 6/2/97 EDT, Terrell Wilson wrote: >. How many students are you working with? About 50/semester in general chemistry. Subject: Students >2. You say,"2/3 look at each lecture." Is there any evidence that those 2/3 >are doing any better than the other 1/3? Unfortunately, I don't have any way to determine which 2/3 this is. As a result I don't have a way to measure any improvement (or to distinguish if this is the source of their improvement). Based upon student comments, use is not restricted to the best or to the worst students. It would be very interesting to correlate learning styles to student use. >3. I am a little uncertain what percentage of your lecture material is on >Netscape, and what is something else. Is it 100% Netscape? This varies dramatically throughout the year depending upon the topic and the amount of time I have to develop material. Primarily Netscape is a front end to provide access to material. In class I use it to present multimedia material but I still spend a lot of time at the board using chalk. It has had a significant effect on my lecture style. This material frequently serves a roll similar to a lecture demo. Subject: Cost >4. This one is underhanded, and I know it, but how does the cost of >developing this course compare with the cost of just sending everybody to the >bookstore to buy a $40 textbook? They all still buy the textbook (which is now closer to $80). The cost of developing the materials would be almost impossible to account for so I won't even try. Doing it right requires a lot of my time and good computer access for the students. Subject: access and questions At 10:54 6/2/97 -0500, Gerald Morine wrote: >3. As I understand it, this web-site is to be used >by the instructor in lecture and then by the students >to review the material later. Are there any parts >that are only available through the web-site, such >as material helping students do their homework >assignments or explore topics in greater depth? >Would having computer-exclusive access be undesirable, >by diminishing the role of the in-person instructor? There is lots of material that is only available through the web site. I previously used reserve material in the library to fill a similar roll. In the "old days" I placed this material on reserve in the library and also made it available by FTP. Now that it is available on the web, the reserve material in the library received almost no use during the fall semester. By the spring semester, I stopped maintaining the reserve material in the library. Some students were concerned about access, and this is a problem for some non-traditional students. The other part to this question, I hope that this has not reduced the role of in-person instruction. My goal is to improve the quality of in-person instruction by focusing more and spending less time with logistics and details. I find it very frustrating when a student comes in and says "Dr Van Bramer I don't understand acids...." or "Dr Van Bramer I missed class today, did you do anything". Now I have students say "I was could not make it to class today, I'll check the web and get back to you if I have any questions". Or if a student is stuck on a homework problem, they check the solutions first and then come with specific questions. At least, this is what some of them do. 8-) I don't believe this diminishes the roll of in-person instruction, but it does change. For some students it becomes much more productive. At 16:04 6/2/97 -0500, Lynn Carlson wrote: >1. You note in several places in your paper that students "can" access >computerized lecture material outside of class for review. This seems >like a very attractive idea. Have you any statistics that show how much >your students actually make use of this feature of on-line presentation? >When materials are (for example) on reserve in the library, they are not >much used, and I wonder if this carries over to materials "reserved" >on-line as well. >From the counters I place on my pages and from our server logs it appears that about 2/3 of the students are making use of this resource. This is much greater use than material I placed on reserve in the Library. In addition, I have been amazed at the number of students who come up to me with a printout from something I have placed on the server and asked very specific and detailed questions. I think that the lower "activation energy" is a significant benefit to using the web for a class. Subject: Computer Literacy At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >5 - Is there any attempt to make the students literate (or semi-literate) >in some of the applications you use (spreadsheets, mathcad), particularly >in your upper level courses ... which brings up the question, how much do >you use this approach in your upper level courses (instrumental, advanced >spectroscopy, etc.) From a quick glance at your web site, it appears that >you also use the approach in those courses too. For the introductory course, I have not taken much time to make students "computer literate". They learn about spreadsheets in lab. I have not chosen to have them use Mathcad (both because of access to the software and time limitations). For these students I have tried to make everything as easy as possible. Using the web as a front end really helps with this. For upper level courses, the focus changes. Since there are fewer students, I don't spend the time to post lecture notes or solution sets. (Maybe I can add these next year). Instead, I use the web to deliver data. This simplifies things since students don't have to learn the details of file manipulation (although that may be a good thing to learn). For example, in advanced spectroscopy students download NMR data from the class web page. After we finish an experiment, I can just tell them that their data will be on the web page. They go to the web page, and download their data for processing. When they have an assignment that requires using a Mathcad document, it is right there for them to click on. In upper division courses, I expect students to be fluent with a spreadsheet (If they are not, I spend lots of time working with them and answering questions). They spend a little time learning how to use Mathcad (although I do not have them generate their own documents). They spend time learning data processing software using handouts that I prepared. This question also leads into the discussion for latter in the week about what students need to know about computing. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:44:11 -0400 From: "Harry E. Pence" Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? Theresa writes that she has two questions: >By making presentations are we teaching? I would suggest that teaching is the process of helping students to learn. I would add that the ultimate goal of teaching is to make students able to teach themselves. Thus any process that helps students to learn is a form of teaching. Some methods are better than others. For example, the old fashioned method of teaching swimming was to throw non-swimmers into deep water. Some of our educational efforts in the past have been equally subtle. There are many cases during my education when I have learned as a result of a presentation. Even today, I often learn by listening to a presentation. Therefore, I would say that giving a presentation can, indeed, be a form of teaching, and in some cases it can be a very effective form of teaching. I've been using cooperative learning in my classes for eight years now, and I sincerely feel that this is often more effective than simple presentations. But I also realize that there are many different teaching styles, I feel no desire to insist that everyone follow the same method that I use. For the time being, presentations are still the most common method of teaching. Much of the material appearing on the Web is still in this mode. When I want to argue for active learning methods, I will do so, but in this case I'm trying to suggest that whether or not a teacher agrees with me about active learning, the argument about pedagogy vs. technology is a crucial one. >By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? I can't guarantee that this will happen, but if the information is presented inefficiently, I'm pretty sure that students won't learn. I don't think that Theresa and I disagree to any great extent, except that I have more than one ax to grind, and in this case I don't want to confuse my main suggestion by bringing in another issue that has already been discussed several times on this and other lists. As the drunk said in the bar, "I'll fight anyone who wants to fight, but please stand in line so I don't offend anyone by taking them out of order!" :-) Harry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence INTERNET: PENCEHE@ONEONTA.EDU | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta OFFICE: 607-436-3193 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 FAX: 607-436-2654 | | http://snyoneab.oneonta.edu/~pencehe/ | | \\\//// | | (0 0) | |_______________OOO__(oo)__OOO____________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:17:18 -0400 From: Linda Sweeting Subject: Re: Paper #5 ME:General question to CHEMCONF participants Regarding Scientific Ethics This will be my 4th year teaching an undergraduate course intiailly titled Ethics for Physical Scientists but now title Professional Ethics for Scientists. It is an undergraduate course (only Biology has a graduate program) open to all students with 3 science courses (2 with lab). Because it is an undergraduate course, it explains the social structure of science as much as it explains ethics. The focus is positive, as much as possible, and the course begins with academic ethics as a base for ethics with regard to data. The level of comfort most students fell about cheating in laboratory as undergraduates (that I have found) makes two important points: 1. students don't understand how easy excuses are to make and how hard habits are to break and 2. something is wrong with many of the laboratory "exercises" we have the students do if the students consider them such a waste of time that they will cook them (many do so as an expedient because they are convinced they aren't going to learn anything by going through the exercise. If you would like to learn about the coure, the entire syllabus and over 500 annotated references are to be found on my web site, http://www.towson.edu/~sweeting (select the course) *************************** Dr. Linda M. Sweeting Department of Chemistry Towson State University Baltimore, MD 21204 sweeting@midget.towson.edu http://www.towson.edu/~sweeting (410)-830-3113 *************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:15:51 -0400 From: Mike Epstein Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to a number of statements >David Ritter >Department of Chemistry >Southeast Missouri State University >wrote: >It has not been fun for me to get several of these papers. Far from *FUN*, >at best, it has been tedious. I do not understand why it was *tedious* for you to download my paper (#5). First, a friend tested it with a non-graphical browser and had no problems. Second, I used small in-line gifs which were clickable to get larger and more extensive jpeg images IF they were wanted by the recipients. Third, the animated gif icons were small and should not have been a problem. I used no frames or tables. So what made it tedious? ================= In reponse to my statements: >Now I'll admit that putting the dripping blood, animated icons, and color >jpgs was not necessary for the content of my paper (I'm glad you didn't >have Internet Explorer 3.0, or you would have gotten background music as >well). But it was *FUN* ..... Hopefully it made it more enjoyable for >some. > >I'm sorry that you had to "download, install and re-configure", but most >browsers can handle the animated icons, color jpg files in my paper and >the pdf files (of paper #2). Tim Pickering Virginia Tech wrote: This is not my idea of FUN! ======================== Excuse me Tim but again, as I noted in the previous reply, what exactly gave you a problem with paper #5. ======================== To my comment: >And you could have downloaded my pages as a text file and not looked at >the *effects*. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech wrote: I am not aware of any method that will allow one to download an Adobe .pdf file in text format. Would appreciate learning how to do that. ================== Again, paper #5 was HTML, not a pdf file and I never said that one could download an Adobe .pdf file without Adobe Acrobat reader. I would ask that if you quote me, you quote me correctly Tim. Thanks..... ME
Mike Epstein Research Chemist National Institute of Standards and Technology Michael.Epstein@nist.gov http://esther.la.asu.edu/sas/epstein/epstein.html > "From tomorrow on, I shall be sad - from tomorrow on! << > Not today; no! Today I will be glad. << > And every day, no matter how bitter it be, I will say: << > From tomorrow on, I shall be sad, not today!" << > Motele - Theresienstadt <<
------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:45:06 MDT From: Reed Howald Subject: Re: Paper 1 - RAH: Testing, fun, web front end >Subject:Testing >At 13:32 6/2/97 -0500, George R Long wrote: >My question - Has the way you test the students changed since you began >using the multimedia ? Do you use the multimedia material at all during the >exams. I guess I worry that the students get tested in static black and >white, when they are taught in multimedia (oops, thats a comment, not a >question) >The short answer is no. Although, the questions have gotten me thinking. Scott's paper is an interesting one, and it opens up even more interesting areas for discussion. I am impressed with what he has been able to do with one particular browser, a particular set of plug ins, and a good intranet server. It is expremely useful to have the same material as lecture illustrations and accessible supplementary material. Our collective experiences accessing PDF material makes it clear that there are still too many variables on the internet that it isn't fun for many of us. But we can look forward to material like Scott's becoming available easily world wide. I will still want the material I am counting on showing in class to be loaded onto a local computer, but we can be sure that some of our students will be looking at material like this on other sites, not only what we choose to provide. Is it effective? I am sure some of it will be. We can control what we make available to our students, and I am sure I could now provide a good set and a bad set, and get higher exam scores from the half of a class that used supplemental material I was proud of. But we have no control of what our students will find, and those students with the initiative to find Schaum's outlines or web based course material on their own, have have done better than other students. And they will continue to do better. >At 03:57 6/3/97 -0400, Mike Epstein wrote: >4 - I too am interested in how you test the students. I would think that >your approach would be most compatible with out-of-class examinations, but >then, particularly in large general chemistry classes, collaboration >becomes a problem. I'm looking forward to hear more about this one. At 19:38 6/2/97 -0400, Mary L. Swift wrote: >Have you thought about 'testing' on-line? >It would be interesting to show a video clip or a molecular structure on the >projection system during an exam and ask questions about it. It could also >be useful to question students about the on-line content. I have been >reluctant to do this the first year because of questions about access and >fairness. Although just over the past year this has changed significantly. >At the beginning of the school year I did have some resistance from students >who thought it was unfair that I would expect them to use this resource. By >the end of the year, I would have gotten the opposite response if I had >taken it away. On line testing is a real possibility with current technology. We do need proctors with the current student body. I do not think an honor code would work here at Montana State University. But it would be relatively easy to provide a TA in a 50 computer laboratory who would check a photo ID for each student, and type in a required password for the particular exam that student was ready for. And having the same browser and plug ins on each computer there would make a level playing field possible. Sincerely, Reed Howald Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry Montana State University Bozeman, MT 59717 "uchrh@earth.oscs.montana.edu" ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:46:55 -0400 From: Stephen Cain Subject: Paper 1-sdc- Re: tjz on The Emperor's New Computer? Theresa Julia Zielinski posted two questions (in response to Harry Pence's excellent posting today). The questions provoked my thoughts, and I generated the following $0.02 worth. In a message dated 97-06-09 10:42:18 EDT, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > By making presentations are we teaching? The ultimate measure of whether anything is *teaching* is what happens in our students: Are they learning? I would suggest that *teaching* includes a wide spectrum activities, one of which is making presentations. Other activities include monitoring student learning, giving feedback, and nurturing student cognitive (and affective?) growth through a course. If chalk-talk and techno-lecture represent the extremes in terms of presentation method, then each method, and variation thereof, will still be related to the instructor attentiveness to students' abilities, prior knowledge, and their progress in learning new topics (perhaps regularly assessed in manners such as those suggested by Angelo and Cross in "Classroom Assessment Techniques"). I know such attentiveness is possible in small classes (I typically enjoy 20-40 students at a time), and I understand the challenges faced by those who have hundreds in a hall. As a traveler, I would choose a small tugboat that delivered its cargo over any fancy ocean liner that couldn't. As educators, we must concentrate on making the deliveries, and not so much on the means. Of course, the best combination (and my goal) is the ocean liner that does make deliveries. (btw, I am a techie myself. I regularly use self-authored "presentations" prepared with Toolbook in class) > By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? Effcieint delivery does not guarantee learning. However, inefficient delivery does guarantee no (or little) learning. The teaching/learning process involves a relationship between teacher and student (both of whom may learn and teach in the process). Each must make a significant effort for the learning to succeed. The instructor has an obligation to make order out of the extensive subject domain. Students' efforts will be related to issues such as their motivation and prior knowledge. Stephen Cain Professor of Chemistry Montgomery College (Maryland) sdcain@aol.com 301-353-7809 (office) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:56:40 -0500 From: George Long Subject: GRL: Re:- The Emperor's New Computer?-but everybodies buying At 09:52 AM 6/9/97 -0400, you wrote: >This discussion is focusing on what I believe to be one of the crucial >issues with developing web pages and delivering courses by the web or the >internet. Which is most important, pedagogy or technology? I understand and agree to a point, but I don't think these are so easily separated. > I would argue that we must be careful to use our student's (and >our colleague's) time as efficiently as possible. When deciding to use >some new technology, we must be sure to balance the educational benefits >against the extra time that will be involved. Unless the benefits are >clearly worth the extra time, we're just playing unproductive games. >Adding some special effect because it has no benefit except that we >think it's cute just doesn't make it. Cute may be the last four letter >word in the English language. -but these benefits are yet unmeasured, perhaps unmeasurable. In defense of "cute", It is not clear that these features don't have an impact. Clearly, People that sell things use "cute" all the time. The dripping blood, for example, may be just enough to get a normally uninterested student to stop long enough to scan the article, and get interested. If it works for Nike, why not for chemistry class. Of course, I have some friends, that are UNIX jocks, that can't stand GUI interfaces, (not nearly so flexible as a command line structure, and they take up all that memory), but thats because they have invested the time to learn a system that doesn't need the GUI. The point is that, it is difficult to say what is important and what is not, for someone else. We may be pleased to get all ascii, if the information content is good, but that's not necessarily true for everyone, particularly those who are not such experienced chemists. By the way, I liked the animated gif's and color pictures, brought a little color to my day. **************************************************************************** George R Long, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 grlong@grove.iup.edu, http://www.iup.edu/~grlong/ Technology has made the world a neighborhood, now it is up to us to make it a brotherhood - Dr. M.L. King **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:15:08 -0400 From: Jack Martin Miller Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to -tek- The Emperor's New Computer? I'm sorry that you had to "download, install and re-configure", but most browsers can handle the animated icons, color jpg files in my paper and the pdf files (of paper #2). And you could have downloaded my pages as a text file and not looked at the *effects*. In any event, I understand what you are driving at, but I stand by the opinion that anything that makes learning more enjoyable is worth it .. anything! The problem even on a Netscape 4 equipped machine is the "!!!" clacking of the disk drive as all these little features are continually reloaded from the cache, neddless to say the slowing down of the real number crunching work running in background on my Mac. Jack Martin Miller Professor of Chemistry Adjunct Professor of Computer Science Brock University, St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada, L2S 3A1. Phone (905) 688 5550, ext 3402 FAX (905) 682 9020 e-mail jmiller@sandcastle.cosc.brocku.ca http://chemiris.labs.brocku.ca/~chemweb/faculty/miller/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:35:18 -0400 From: "Timothy L. Pickering" Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to a number of statements My apologies to Mike Epstein. I became confused between signatures in quoted material and the actual sender. The paper that gave me trouble was #2, the Adobe.pdf file with the cartoon. Mike's aticle, bloody gifs and all, loaded without problem. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:47:07 -0400 From: Tom Kenney Subject: Re: Papers 1, 2, 3... ME response to a number of statements On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Timothy L. Pickering wrote: > My apologies to Mike Epstein. I became confused between signatures in > quoted material and the actual sender. The paper that gave me trouble was > #2, the Adobe.pdf file with the cartoon. Mike's article, bloody gifs > and all, loaded without problem. > I'll second that. In addition, Mike's article didn't even hesitate when the browser wasn't the latest version. (I didn't even know about the sound bites until he mentioned them.) Tom Kenney e-mail: tkenney@umd5.umd.edu s-mail: Chemistry Department Montgomery College Rockville, MD 20850 ***Standard disclaimers apply.*** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:24:52 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Paper 1 - svb:The Emperor's New Computer? At 10:05 6/9/97 -0400, Theresa Zielinski wrote: >By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? This question certainly cuts to the point. Based upon my limited experience, I do think it can help. But the context and the goals need to be clearly defined. Information delivery alone is not enough. We can't just wrap it up in a new pretty high tech package and hand it to the students. That won't help them learn. Instead, technology can be a tool to help students make connections. We all have different ways of helping students make these connections. And students all have different ways of making these connections. My experience this past year is that some of this really helped my students. They responded very well to some of what I did in class, and many of them appreciated having access outside of class. It worked with my style of teaching (a mixture of computer resources for visualization, my working problems at the board, and students working problems in groups) It is not, however, the only way or the best way. One of the things I have enjoyed about this conference is that it I get lots of new ideas. The first Chemconf occurred after my first year of teaching, it was a fantastic experience. Another thing that came out of that first conference was a chance to learn about some new technology. Many similar problems were encountered, except they were about how to use FTP to download and install gif viewers. Most of us take viewing static images for granted. It just works. I know that the first conference was an amazing technological showcase for me. And now the bar has risen. Although this can be frustrating, it provides new ways to communicate. I recall the amount of time it took to make my first calibration curve on a spreadsheet. But now I am very glad I made that effort. I don't know if the resources presented here will be as useful, but there certainly are some exciting possiblities. Learning how to use these resources is an investment of time. Certainly there are tradeoffs involved and each participant will have to decide what to look at and how to use it. The last point I would like to make about this is that every author needs to decide what is the most effective way to present an idea. To balance what is possible, what is useful, what is effective and what is convenient (for both the author and for the audience). Every time I sit down to write, I try to remember this. I am quite opinionated about what works well, but they are my opinions. If anyone has any constructive criticism about my paper I welcome it. But I ask that it be given in private, not on the list. I believe that all the other authors would appreciate the same courtesy. Now, what should I try out next fall? Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:44:15 -0700 From: Kimberley Cousins Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? OK, I'll bite. I've had limited experience using Web-based and commercial animations, models, etc. for organic chemistry (particularly mechanisms) and inorganic and organic structures. I've even attempted to quantify learning enhancement through their use. > By making presentations are we teaching? No, but I'm not sure its any different from a chalk talk (isn't that a presentation, too? and hampered by my height, inelegant drawings, etc.). As a classroom teacher my role is to (1) guide students as to the important topics, (2) provide help in getting them to think in new ways, (3) provide them with as many tools as I can to get the difficult concepts across. It is the third catagory for which I primarily use computer animation in lecture. After all, it is trivial for practicing organic chemistry to "visualize" inversion in an SN2 mechanism, and relate the reaction coordinate to an energy diagram, but it is quite difficult for many organic chemistry students. Classical overheads, chalk representations, plastic models, just do not convey this mechanism as clearly as computer animations do. > > By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? > No, information alone is not enough. (Although graphical representations in organic chemistry tend to be highly praised as learning tools by my more "visual" learners). I am convinced that active participation in learning: taking notes, answering questions posed in class, working homework problems . . . is the only way that real "learning" takes place. In one of my semi-official assessments of learning through chem visualization, I showed and explained two synthetic methods for preparing diols (using the commercial ChemTV package), and then queried student retention of the two reaction on a quiz a few days later. Students scored significantly worse on the diol questions, than on four similar questions that were introduced using traditional techniques. My personal take on these results are that students take few note during the ChemTV presentation, seeing them as "entertaining" or believing that they understand (and will recall) the animations well enough without notes. Yet the very process of writing (and hopefully later reviewing) the notes is active learning. Watching animations of reactions is passive. I would be interested in hearing others' interpretations. Kimberley Cousins Department of Chemistry California State University, San Bernardino 5500 University Parkway San Bernardino, CA 92407 (909)880-5391 kcousins@wiley.csusb.edu http://chem.csusb.edu/~kcousins > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 14:51:34 -0400 From: "Timothy L. Pickering" Subject: Re: Paper 1 - svb:The Emperor's New Computer? Scott Van Bramer wrote: >The first Chemconf occurred after my first year of teaching,.... > Many similar problems were encountered, except >they were about how to use FTP to download and install gif viewers. Yes, I remember it well. Astonishing progress has been made in the delivery mechanism for this forum. Sometimes we need to step back a little in order to appreciate that fact. >If anyone has any constructive criticism about my >paper I welcome it. But I ask that it be given in private, not on the list. I would like to ask that you reconsider your position on this point. If the criticism is constructive (rather than theological) we all benefit from seeing it and your responses to it. We learn more about the issues that are troubling our colleagues, and about viewpoints that we may not have considered, but should. This educational aspect will be lost if the conversations are held in private. Of course, we respect your decision if you still decide for privacy, but I hope you will think it over one more time. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 12:30:48 +0100 From: "Karen E. Stevens" Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? Kimberley Cousins wrote: >> By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? > > > I am convinced that active participation in >learning: taking notes, answering questions posed in class, working >homework problems . . . is the only way that real "learning" takes >place. In one of my semi-official assessments of learning through chem >visualization, I showed and explained two synthetic methods for preparing >diols (using the commercial ChemTV package), and then queried student >retention of the two reaction on a quiz a few days later. Students >scored significantly worse on the diol questions, than on four similar >questions that were introduced using traditional techniques. My personal >take on these results are that students take few note during the >ChemTV presentation, seeing them as "entertaining" or believing that they >understand (and will recall) the animations well enough without notes. I heartily agree with Kimberley Cousins' statements above. I have attempted similar unofficial assessments by examining student quiz or exam scores that were based on multimedia video clips etc. I found very low retention on information that was presented through computer simulations, etc. presented in class. I tend (at least initially) to attribute this to two things: 1) as Kimberley Cousins mentioned, the students think this is the "entertainment" portion of class and tend to not take notes and (2) the very nature of the manner of presentation tunes them out. At least in my teaching room, I need to dim all room lights, wait about 60 seconds for the mechanical video screen to lower in front of the room, and close the hallway door in order for the graphics to show up well on the screen. The dark room and waiting time while I'm getting the computer and screen adjusted puts many students to sleep (especially in my 8am class!) I find it much harder to get active participation from students in the "multimedia darkened" classroom. Do others of you have a more illuminated room that still allows you and the students to have eye contact and keep a discussion going? Karen E. Stevens Whitworth College Department of Chemistry 300 W. Hawthorne Rd. Spokane, WA 99251-3903 (509) 466-1000 x 4505 kstevens@whitworth.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 15:56:50 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 1 - LJ: Re: tjz The Emperor's New Computer? Message forwarded by DR from Loretta Jones Subject: Paper 1 - LJ: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? Reply-to: lljones@bentley.unco.edu Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 11:17:56 The languages of several Native American tribes derive from a common ancient source. This language had no word for "teach," only for "learn." A student is someone who want to learn something---it is then up to the student to seek out information. In our culture teaching has taken a more proactive role. One reason is that our students often don't know what they want to learn, as there are so many options and they must complete schooling before they have many experiences in the world. So we assume the role of active guide. The opportunities offered by technology such as the web that help students find personally meaningful applications of what they are learning, areas for future study, and important tools help us do this. They also help us reach what Harry Pence calls "the ultimate goal of teaching" and the only goal recognized in ancient times: > I would add that the ultimate goal of teaching is to make students able to > teach themselves. Loretta Jones ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:14:53 -0700 From: Barbara Murray Subject: Papers 1-BMM-plug-ins This is a general question for all who are more internet-able. What do you that are the minimum plug-ins that one should have? I am always running into some site that needs a plug-in that I don't have. But downloading the plug-in at the time seems like too much trouble. So, now that it is summer and I have more free time, I want to go to netscape's plug-in site and download many of them and get them working. Could people give us new techs a list, please? -- *********************************************************************** Barbara Murray bmurray@uor.edu Chemistry Department 909-793-2121 ext 2374 University of Redlands FAX 909-793-2029 1200 E Colton, PO Box 3080 Redlands, CA 92373-0999 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:14:41 -0400 From: "Harry E. Pence" Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content Scott has created an impressive learning-support system, especially considering that he has apparently done it mainly on his own. I would like to comment on one question which he deals with in the above response, namely, "Does multimedia presentation work better than traditional methods?" As far as I can see, this is still open to question, and I see little probability that a firm answer will appear anytime in the near future. There is, indeed, a web site that contains a list of papers that claim to show there is not difference, and recently this site (and a paper in Change) have often been quoted. The problem is that the paper and the site are not impartial; they are intended to show that distance learning is just as good as traditional methods. Thus, the author is attempting to justify the replacement of traditional methods with the technology used in distance learning. To make the issue more complicated, I have also read an analysis suggesting that most of the studies discussed on the web site are not particularly good, and so the site cannot be completely trusted. Let's just say for argument's sake that the site is good and the studies are accurate. We have been teaching in the traditional way for at least 100 years more or less. (If you wish to put it further back in time, I wouldn't argue.) Multimedia has been used for about a decade. (Again, you can argue about the time frame.) Should anyone expect that a method that has been used and developed for ten times as long would show better results? If, in fact, the two methods are equal, surely as we begin to better understand the new techniques, we can expect better results from the new methods. I would argue that most instructors are still not very good at using the blackboard (myself, included). How long will it take us to truly understand how to effectively use images for teaching? Scott's final reply is a good one. When asked if the results are worth the extra effort, he replies, "For me and my students, yes." That's the only important answer. Unless there are enough faculty, like Scott, who are willing to invest the time and effort to determine how best to use the new technology, we will never learn if it is really better. These are times that demand rapid results. Whether the question deals with TV sitcoms, stocks, or teaching methods, the focus is on quick answers. For the time being, I'm not going to be concerned with whether the educational research shows that the new technology is better. My main concern is the same as Scott's, "Does it work for my students and me?" I'm showing my students things that I never dreamed would be possible, and they are responding enthusiastically. When we have all begun to understand the best ways to use the methods, I'll become concerned about the research. Until then, Like Scott, I'm happy to do what works for me and my students. Cordially, Harry ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | Harry E. Pence INTERNET: PENCEHE@ONEONTA.EDU | | Professor of Chemistry PHONE: 607-436-3179 | | SUNY Oneonta OFFICE: 607-436-3193 | | Oneonta, NY 13820 FAX: 607-436-2654 | | http://snyoneab.oneonta.edu/~pencehe/ | | \\\//// | | (0 0) | |_______________OOO__(oo)__OOO____________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 16:26:19 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Re: Papers 1 - SVB: Plug-ins At 13:14 6/6/97 -0700, Barbara Murray wrote: >This is a general question for all who are more internet-able. What do >you that are the minimum plug-ins that one should have? I am always >running into some site that needs a plug-in that I don't have. But >downloading the plug-in at the time seems like too much trouble. So, >now that it is summer and I have more free time, I want to go to >netscape's plug-in site and download many of them and get them working. > >Could people give us new techs a list, please? I use the following on a very regular basis and consider these three essential for the web browsing chemist. Quicktime http://quicktime.apple.com/ Acrobat http://www.adobe.com/prodindex/acrobat/readstep.html CHIME http://www.mdli.com/chemscape/chime/download.html I also use the following: JCAMP-DX http://wwwchem.uwimona.edu.jm:1104/software/jcampdx.html Shockwave http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/ These take care of at least 95% of what I try and look at on the web. All of these sites include instructions for installation. But it may take some time to figure out. Also after installing the plug-in you will have to restart Netscape for the plug-ins to run. Good luck, I hope you find it worth the effort. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 19:26:55 -0500 From: Nora Sabelli Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content Two short comments on the current list discussion on the uses of technology= in chemistry education. =20 =46irst, technology by itself does nothing; it is how is used that matters.= And there is accumulating evidence that it is when students use it to= explore concepts (as a tool to think with) as part of learning that a= change in learning occurs. When we use it to help our presentations,= results are either inconclusive or negative--the fundamental time for= learning has not changed. Second, and perhaps more important, is that we loose many students--we being= both science and chemistry. Perhaps the goal should be not so much to see= how technology helps teach those students that are already committed, but= to reach those who learn in other ways. Not all students that have to learn= chemistry learn best with existing teaching methods, with an emphasis in= presentations and listening--and the changes brought by visualizations and= manipulations may be more significant for these students. =20 And finally, there is the issue of how technology can perhaps help= teach/learn what we are not teaching now, but we should. I don't mean 'more= stuff' but the a curriculum for the complex chemistry chemistry that all= should know. This, I agree will take time to understand. Nora Sabelli ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:09:23 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Testing Everyone who I have taled to about online testing or even computerized testing has experienced a lot of problems. Although the difficulties are easily predictable, security, logistics, and technical support, they are not easily resolved issues. As the technology becomes more complex, all of the problems get worse. Given the paltry budget available at most institutions, these probklems are intractable. >From the students perspective, the ergonomics of any form of CBT are much worse than traditional examinations. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W.. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 20:26:24 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: ROP Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > Today Harry P. wrote an interesting note. I found two sentences > particularly thought provoking in that the represent a dichotomy to me. The > sentences are: > > >New technologies provide instructors with impressive new > >capabilities for teaching. > > and that students want > > > the material delivered clearly and > >directly, and are only willing to invest extra time if this will produce > >significantly improved results. > > > > Here are my questions. > > By making presentations are we teaching? If our presentations are causing concepts to be retained and understood, then presentations are teaching. This is true regardless of whether the learning happens at presentation time or latter. If lectures even cause this to happen, they have accomplished something. Clearly interactive instruction is more time efficient; it does not have to involve technology. > By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? > If the students can apply the information in other situation then some level of learning has transpired. I often parallel teaching to thermodynamics: 1. It is impossible to get students to expend any effort without expending any yourself. 2. Your best efforts can be wasted. Maximum teaching effectiveness occurs when the greatest amount of learning can be caused with the least amount of (effort,$,resources). This is of course a perilous process. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 21:16:13 -0400 From: "Carl H. Snyder" Subject: CHS - Theresa's questions and dichotomy Concerning Theresa's questions and dichotomy: >By making presentations are we teaching? >By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? >I would be interested reading what others think and how they resolve the >dichotomy. I view *learning* as the acquisition of knowledge or information; *teaching* as imparting knowledge or information to others. This has some serious implications, one of which is that you must know something in order to teach it. You can't very well teach something you don't already know. Thus the term "self-taught" is self-contradictory. To say that "I taught myself quantum theory" is as incorrect logically as "I learned him quantum theory" is incorrect grammatically. Of course you don't need the physical presence of a human teacher to learn. Learning can come from books, computer programs, experience, (as in Experience is the Best Teacher), and other modes. There are plenty of other implications, discussions of which are better left for other threads. So, for Theresa's first question, "By making presentations are we teaching?" -- Yes, indeed we are! By presenting knowledge in such a way that others may acquire it -- through lectures, computer programs, books, or what have you -- we are teaching. Unless you expect your students to carry out, on their own, all the experiments and all the calculations that led us to our current model of the atom, you had better *present* to your students -- in one way or another -- the essence of that current model as you, yourself, understand it. But let's hope that your presentation is effective. Which brings us to Theresa's second question: "By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning?" Change "efficiently" to "effectively" and it's Yes again. After all, if we are transmitting knowledge or information to others effectively, others are learning and we are teaching. As I said before, though, there are some pretty profound implications to this. There's a quotation attributed to Benjamin Franklin that adds a bit to this thread: "He who will not learn cannot be taught." Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@miami.edu Chemistry Department Phone: (305)-284-2174 University of Miami FAX: (305)-284-4571 Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA http://www.miami.edu/chm/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:18:03 -0700 From: John Krikau Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Testing Has any thought been given to on-line testing for students as a means of self-evaluation? I like to give students the opportunity to answer questions without the threat of a grade hanging over their heads. It is just another opportunity for students to learn. John R Krikau ChemCom Staff Associate American Chemical Society 1155 16th Street, NW Washington, DC 20036 E-mail: j_krikau@acs.org Phone: (202)872-6383 Fax: (202)833-7732 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:50:05 -0500 From: George Long Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content I usually agree with Harry, but I just can't agree with this. > For the time being, I'm not going to be concerned with whether >the educational research shows that the new technology is better. My >main concern is the same as Scott's, "Does it work for my students and >me?" I'm showing my students things that I never dreamed >would be possible, and they are responding enthusiastically. When we have >all begun to understand the best ways to use the methods, I'll become >concerned about the research. Until then, Like Scott, I'm happy to do >what works for me and my students. It is too easy to be biased when it comes to your own teaching. The research should certainly guide what you do. Now I do agree that it is important for faculty to be enthusiastic, and also that faculty should take risks in areas that are not thoroughly studied, so there is no need to >wait< for proof, but if something is shown to work, or not work in some way, then we should take heed. I have seen far to many arcane topics, and poor teaching practices justified by this kind of statement. The focus that some have had on how good is it, and does it work, in this conference is certainly worthwhile, and reflects the fact that we have seen alot of "multimedia works for me" papers. We are all interested in some documentation of how, where, and when it works, as well as the instances where it doesn't.( This is not meant to be my opinion of Scott's paper , by the way, clearly he has shown a way to gain certain efficiencies in the use of multimedia that is well worth knowing. - I will probably use some of the information presented in my classes, in any case it has got me thinking about things I can do) **************************************************************************** George R Long, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 grlong@grove.iup.edu, http://www.iup.edu/~grlong/ Technology has made the world a neighborhood, now it is up to us to make it a brotherhood - Dr. M.L. King **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:59:20 -0400 From: George Shalhoub Subject: Re: GRL: Re:- The Emperor's New Computer?-but everybodies buying I tend to agree with some of the comments made by Tom Kenney. Although I have not had problems with Acrobat, I can understand his frustration of having to get it, load it, and learn how it works. It seems to me that many times we use technology for the sake of technology. Our focus should be on what we are trying to learn. I agree that it may be "fun" to set up your browsers, plugins and such, but at what cost? Could that time be better spent on other endeavors? It is, of course, a personal decision. I personally found the music and animated gifs somewhat annoying in Paper #5, it took a while to load and I felt these niceties did not add to, but subtracted from the content. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:45:20 -0400 From: Daniel Lewicki Subject: Re: CHS - Theresa's questions and dichotomy On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Carl H. Snyder wrote: > I view *learning* as the acquisition of knowledge or information; > *teaching* as imparting knowledge or information to others....By presenting knowledge in such a way > that others may acquire it... In all the discussion to date re teaching and learning. Two positions persist regarding teaching: knowledge transmission (which Dr. Snyder is advocating) and knowledge construction. In the latter, both the content and the means of generating are important. Knowledge is constructed through social means (both with human and computers) involving the use of strategies and tactics that involve active participation, evidence gathering, interaction among students (teachers and computers), discourse, critical thinking, argumentation, and persuasion. The goal is to enable students to discover and construct the knowledge for themselves (i.e., learning). The emphasis is on the student and his/her interaction with the teacher, subject matter, and environment (including lab and technology). Actual teaching, to me, is much like a pendulum swinging between the extremes of the transmission-construction continuum depending on the specific objectives of instruction. Due to time constraints, extend of content, and other factors, not all the teaching which is done in science can be structured to exclusively mediate knowledge transmission or facilitate knowledge construction. Rather, to give students flexibility in learning and to permit strategies which may be more efficient than others, an ideal classroom would show evidence that BOTH processes were occurring with the careful orchestration by the teacher. BUT, the position of that pendulum should reside closer to the construction end so that teachers can effectively identify and help students confront their preexisting notions and facilitate the construction process (and all forms of presentation gadgetry can help with this). Regards. ***************************************************************************** Daniel Lewicki, Ph.D. Telephone: (518) 445-1739 Sciences Division E-mail: lewicd@sage.edu The Sage Colleges/SJCA Fax: (518) 436-0539 140 New Scotland Ave. Albany NY 12208 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 08:45:34 -0500 From: "Dr. David Ritter" Subject: dr - The Emperor's New Computer? At 10:05 AM 6/9/97 -0400, tjz wrote: >Today Harry P. wrote an interesting note. I found two sentences >particularly thought provoking in that the represent a dichotomy to me. The >sentences are: > >>New technologies provide instructors with impressive new >>capabilities for teaching. > >and that students want > >> the material delivered clearly and >>directly, and are only willing to invest extra time if this will produce >>significantly improved results. >> > >Here are my questions. > >By making presentations are we teaching? > >By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? > I would like to add my $0.02 worth by citing an example from my experience. I wonder sometimes what should fit in the "material delivered clearly" and "information delivered efficiently" catagories. I have integrated extensive on-line searching into my Chemical Literature class for about the last six years. Over this period, the technology has "improved" significantly. In spite of this, our ability to DO IT has significantly deteriorated: I have two "lab" sections per week from 5 to 7 pm for about half of the semester for students to do on-line searching. We spend about half of this time using LCA and LReg on STN in Ohio. In this past springm semester, we "crashed out" over half of the evenings. When it was working, the searching went excruciatingly slow. For example, students usually had several minute response time for EACH command sent to STN. My criteria for "crashing out" was whenever the student wait per command got to >20 minutes, we would go home. In this real-world context what does "information delivered efficiently" mean? David David Ritter Department of Chemistry Southeast Missouri State University c617scc@semovm.semo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:23:54 -0400 From: reeves Subject: Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content Harry Pence, you just keep on inspiring me. You're absolutely right. We do instructional technology because it has the potential to bring us and our students new, exciting views of the chemist's world, ones even we hadn't imagined. We have the possibility to include different learners, who don't function well with pencils, paper and a calculator, but understand visual and sound images. But there's another well known aspect of the technology that needs to be stressed. The Internet is, at least right now, a leveler of the playing field. Anyone with access to a Server can publish their work. The possibility that the next great curricular model might be developed and published rises significantly if all of us can place our materials where the world can see them. And a free give and take of ideas significantly improves the possibilities for collaboration. The single biggest obstacle to this vision is lack of readily accessible, high quality multimedia materials. We need a source of copyright-restriction free files, available to anyone to be used in any context (except to make a profit from its resale). And a word about tools to develop Internet content. At UNCW I use Asymetric Toolbook for all of my classroom presentations, and its Internet plug-in, Neuron, allows all the power of Toolbook (including the ability to play nicely formatted media files) to be used over the WWW. For example, see http://www.uncwil.edu/people/reeves/courses/Do_Science.htm But Neuron only works on PC's and Toolbook has a steep learning curve. Toolbook is also expensive ($500 or so). I recommend that folks look carefully at Powerpoint, which is a presentation manager with all of those limitations but which saves easily to .htm format and plays either in Netscape or in a full screen mode, at least in its Windows95 incarnation (right mouse button in Windows95). The last two PC Windows versions play media files easily. I can't say quite where the MAC version is, but it is cross platform. Powerpoint is part of the Microsoft Office suite, which is $39 a copy to North Carolina schools, so everyone, including the students, will have their own copy. Finally, a word about the worth of all of this. There are numerous educational studies that show that sitting in a lecture is the least effective way to learn, and making the lectures stimulating can effect that, I think, but not alter the basic premise. Good lecturers develop a style that works for them, and what's most important is to be true to your style. I think that's why the many studies are showing no significant differences in student performance when two good styles are compared. How much students learn will be directly correlated with how much time they actively think about the subject. Active thinking doesn't equate in my mind with frantically thumbing through a textbook looking for an example like homework problem, but it does equate with doing targeted activities, often in small groups, designed to drive home basic concepts. It equates with doing more and different types of problems, ones involving media and conceptual understanding as well as equation manipulation and number generation. And on a good day, it equates with a stimulating and clearly presented lecture. Much of this has been possible for a long time, but technology has removed some overwhelming obstacles. Its an exciting time to be a chemical educator. **************************************************************************** *********** Jimmy Reeves, Associate Professor Department of Chemistry University of North Carolina at Wilmington 601 S. College Rd. Wilmington, NC 28403 910-962-3456 voice 910-962-3013 fax WWW Site: http:\\cte.uncwil.edu e-mail: reeves@uncwil.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:26:35 -0400 From: Brian Tissue Subject: Re: Paper 1 - BT: Testing and lectures John Krikau wrote: >Has any thought been given to on-line testing for students as a means of >self-evaluation? I like to give students the opportunity to answer >questions without the threat of a grade hanging over their heads. It is >just another opportunity for students to learn. I think that self-evaluation is one of the mental methods that good learners use all the time. During my first time teaching general chemistry, I spent a lot of help-session time teaching general problem-solving strategies. My only regret is that I didn't do it for the whole class. I've used on-line prelabs for a couple of years with mixed results. Because of the security concern, the grade was based only on completing the exercises before lab. I could tell that the harder-working students got more out of the prelabs than the students who went through the questions quickly. Some students have complained that I should grade based on the answers. I think that they expect a reward for every effort that they put in. Concerning class presentations, I always use the chalkboard (I would use a computer display for some things if we had them in our classrooms). I think that my best lectures have been times when I've gotten off of the material I had planned to cover (the students might think differently). Two examples: in senior-level instrumental analysis we'll get off on some tangent, such as an in-depth example of a "real-world" problem, and I make the class decide on appropriate analytical methods. In general chemistry I've had to go back and repeat material over and over again. In both cases I get more class participation and feedback than in a typical lecture when I am presenting new material. Brian *************************************************************** Prof. Brian M. Tissue phone: (540) 231-3786 Department of Chemistry FAX: (540) 231-3255 Virginia Tech e-mail: tissue@vt.edu Blacksburg, VA 24061-0212 http://www.chem.vt.edu/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:30:25 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? At 12:30 6/9/97 +0100, Karen E. Stevens wrote: >Do others of you have a more >illuminated room that still allows you and the students to have >eye contact and keep a discussion going? Based upon my experience, the "hardware" does count. The brighter the projection system the better. With a projection panel (which required blackout conditions) I was only able to show very short multimedia clips and keep the class's attention. The brighter system, where I can keep the lights on or just dim the lights, really helps. One change in my presentation style that is possible with a brighter projector is to use the projector and work on the board at the same time. This allows me to write a chemical equation on the board, show a video clip, then go back to the equation and work a problem. This seems to help students make connections and reduces the "entertainment break" attitude. Of course I don't have a clear way to "prove" that this works or that it is "better". Just an idea that seems to work. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:40:39 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? At 11:44 6/9/97 -0700, Kimberley Cousins wrote: >Yet the very process of writing (and hopefully later reviewing) the notes >is active learning. Watching animations of reactions is passive. I >would be interested in hearing others' interpretations. Now that there are techniques available to effectively bring animations into the classroom, maybe the next step is to try and make this experience more active. One of the major reasons I chose to present material using the web is that students have access to these resources after class. For review and interaction. This is a step towards a more active learning, but for these ideas to fulfil their potential more is probably required. Any ideas how to make the multimedia experience more active during class? Has anyone tried having students write a description of what they observed (like a 1 minute paper) or using a video or animation as the basis of a problem students work on in class? Maybe I should show a set of reactions that demonstrate periodic trends and see if students can develop the relationships. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:48:36 -0400 From: "Timothy L. Pickering" Subject: Re: Assessment of Technology in the Classroom Assessing the effectivess of new education technologies, curricula, teaching methods, etc. is always a difficult and hotly debated issue. Did the students do better because of the new , or did they do better because you paid more attention to them, or because this year's class was above average, etc.? The issue will certainly come up over and over again in this conference. From some of the postings that have already appeared, I am beginning to discern an interesting new trend in some of the rhetoric used to "justify" the use of technology in the classroom. The approach turns the assessment issue on it head. It runs something like this - the students/class that used the new technology didn't DO ANY WORSE than the students/classes taught by the standard method, based on the results of whatever assessment tool is being used. From this result, we are asked to adopt what I would call a "laissez faire" attitude toward the use of new technology that runs along the following lines - whenever the instructor has the desire, motivation, resources, etc. to introduce new technology, he should be permitted to do so because it doesn't do any harm to the students. I find this development quite fascinating and will be interested to see how it evolves. Tim Pickering Virginia Tech ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 10:58:16 -0400 From: Bert Ramsay Subject: Paper 1+:Technology and Student Learning My comment is really directed to several of the papers - but since a thread has been introduced by several of the participants about the impact of technology upon student learning, I"ll throw in my $0.01. During the past decade or so we have seen many activities directed toward the conversion of carbon-based teaching presentation methods [if I may use a terminology used by Dave Brooks some time ago] found in textbooks and lectures (chalk-based) to silicon-based media (computer software, CD-ROM, web sites, Java apps, etc.) It was hoped that presentations in these new media would get students more involved and excited about chemistry - and as a result increase their learning. However, in spite the the tremendous expenditures of time and money (both public and private), it seems to me that we have not seen a significant change in the performance of the great mass of students taking chemistry. My comment, or perhaps question, is whether teachers should continue to spend time and resources on developing new presentation media before they have ascertained what is missing in the current methodology - that if corrected would help the students succeed? Bert Ramsay, Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, Eastern Michigan University ================== During the past 8 years I personally have taken a different approach by focusing on the development of student learning tools. I would be pleased to share more with you, but I would need permission from the conference coordinator to do so - to minimize the flaming I might receive from some of you that might perceive such comments as a "commercial" message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:38:37 -0400 From: John Woolcock Subject: Re: JW - Theresa's questions and dichotomy Carl Snyder focused our attention on the following: >Concerning Theresa's questions and dichotomy: > >>By making presentations are we teaching? >>By getting information delivered efficiently are students learning? >>I would be interested reading what others think and how they resolve the >>dichotomy. I think that the dichotomy Theresa is talking about is the one between behavioral and cognitive psyhchology and how it is applied to learning. The behaviorial view is that "Learning is assumed to be the product of causal links between instructional stimuli and student responese which are strengthened or weakened through reinforcement." On the other hand "Cognitive approaches...emphasize learning as a process, and the role of the student in mediating learning." During the past few years, the cognitive approach has dominated the research in learning and has much to offer. For example, it has produced the current emphasis in cooperative and discovery learning which are student mediated. At the same time the behaviorisitc approach has become less emphasized as instructors shift to experiment with this new learning paradigm. Yet it is still the dominant teaching style of most textbooks. Which is better? I don't think that this is question we need to answer. There are basic principles that we can apply to instruction from both approaches. There are also some principles that "overarch" both of these. One of these is directly related to Scott's paper: "Learning is more correctly attributable to well-orchestrated design strategies than the inherent superiority of various media". "The advantages of different delivery systems are often based on efficiency, logisitical superiority and availability versus the elusive best medium." So in short, Scott has sold me on the efficiency, logisitics and availability of a web browser as a presentation device. I plan to develop my course materials for use on the web rather than using Powerpoint! John Woolcock (All quotes were taken from the book "Instructional Message Design. Prinicples From The Behavioral and Cognitive Sciences", Second Edition, Edited by Malcolm Fleming and W. Howard Levie, p. 191-193.) *************************************** John Woolcock Chemistry Dept. Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 Email: woolcock@grove.iup.edu Phone: (412) 357-4828 FAX: (412) 357-5700 http://www.iup.edu/ch *************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 13:57:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Paper 1: TOH - The Emperor's New Computer? Karen E. Stevens: > ...I found very low >retention on information that was presented through computer simulations... >I find it much harder to get active participation from students in the >"multimedia darkened" classroom. Kimberley Cousins" > ...students take few note during the > ChemTV presentation, seeing them as "entertaining"... >...Watching animations of reactions is passive. These are very interesting observations! "Information ... presented through computer simulations" suggests that student are just sitting there watching the *results* of somebody else's computer simulation. That might put me to sleep, too, if the room were dark enough and the chairs comfortable enough. I have not encountered the "multimedia darkened" classroom syndrome only because my classrooms are generic low-tech general purpose shared classrooms with no technology beyond a chalkboard and (on a good day) electric lights. I have always complained about this - maybe too quickly, as it now seems. The limited classroom technology has encouraged me to develop technology-based out-of-class "homework" assignments that my students are required to perform in our computer lab (or on their own computers, if they have them). These are almost all interactive, real-time, rule-based simulations where the students control the parameters and observe the results of their selections. In an important way, there experiences are less passive that just watching something organized by someone else. But it's not as much fun for *me*, because I can't be there to show off my techno-skills and gloat over the glitzy technology. They have to work through it themselves. Admitedly, I have the advantage of rather small classes. It seems to me that active is better than passive, but it takes more (ugg) *time*. I have *not* had the courage to take the untimate step, and that is to get students involved in the construction of simulations. But some simple measures might work. Take the animation of a reaction mechanism, for instance. Who learns best from a reaction simulation? I'll wager it's the animatator! So why not give the kids a simple animation package and assign them each a reaction to animate. Actually, I know why not - they don't have the time and you don't have the computers. But it's a thought, anyway. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation (301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:18:00 EDT From: to2 Subject: Paper 1: TOH - Presentation/learning/acquisition of information Carl H. Snyder: >I view *learning* as the acquisition of knowledge or information; >*teaching* as imparting knowledge or information to others. That may work for you and for me and for others of the "old school" like us, but I fear it does not work for many of today's students, especially the non-science majors. Sheila Tobias's books suggest that many of today's students "see through" the mere acquisition of information as a boring, low-level, machine-like task. The information that students retain just long enough to give back to us on the examinations is not necessarily the ultimate measure of the long-term value of education (not that I'm sure what *is* that ultimate measure). I'd like to be able to change their attitudes about science and scientists, not just increase their storehouse of knowledge. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation (301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 14:35:21 EDT From: Donald Rosenthal Subject: Paper 1 - DR: Teaching Objectives and How We Teach Do and Should Chemistry Courses Teach Anything Other Than Chemistry? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ It seems to me that the way we teach depends upon what our objectives or goals are. Some possible goals: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (Not necessarily listed in the order of importance) Learn something about chemistry (most certainly in a chemistry course) Learn something about science Learn how to learn Learn how to read (critically) Learn how to use technology in the learning process and in the workplace Learn how to communicate in writing and orally Learn how to interact with others Preparing for a career Other goals ------------------------------------------------- What the goals are and the relative importance of these goals should determine how a course is taught. For example, one might argue that most knowledge is imparted by professional journals and the printed word (and associated graphics). Therefore, a most important goal is for a student to learn to read critically and this should be a major objective of the course. In this context the textbook becomes a most important component of the course. Multimedia and other technologies may help the student to better understand what they have read, but they may also take the focus away from the printed word. The question can be asked is a multimedia lesson which does not rely on the printed word a good thing? This is only one scenario. Other scenarios can be written which will lead to quite different conclusions. Donald Rosenthal Clarkson University ROSEN1@CLVM.CLARKSON.EDU ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 16:17:31 -0500 From: Nora Sabelli Subject: : Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content I am resending my original message since it appears that it was not readable by some. Sorry...and hope this one is readable. > Your editor added no line feeds to your message, resulting in >paragraphs which were cut off at (I would guess) 144 characters when >I received it. I assume others are in the same situation - unable to >read your message. Two short comments on the current list discussion on the uses of technology in chemistry education. First, technology by itself does nothing; it is how is used that matters. And there is accumulating evidence that it is when students use it to explore concepts (as a tool to think with and as part of learning) that a change in learning occurs. When we use it to help our presentations, results are either inconclusive or negative--the fundamental time students spend for learning has not changed. Second, and perhaps more important, we loose many students--we being both science and chemistry. Perhaps the goal should be not so much to see how technology helps teach those students that are already committed, but to reach those who learn in other ways and we loose. Not all students that have to learn chemistry learn best with existing teaching methods, with their emphasis in presentations and listening--the change brought by visualizations and manipulations may be more significant for these students. The measures of success may be changes in the number of students that drop out, or take more advanced courses, or retain better the material after several years. And finally, there is the issue of how technology can perhaps help teach/learn what we are not teaching now, but we should. I don't mean 'more stuff' but a curriculum for the complex chemistry applications that all should know. This, I agree will take time for us to understand. Nora Sabelli ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:40:37 -0400 From: "Carl H. Snyder" Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - Presentation/learning/acquisition of information In response to my comment: >>I view *learning* as the acquisition of knowledge or information; >>*teaching* as imparting knowledge or information to others. Tom O'Have writes (in part) >Sheila Tobias's books suggest that many of today's students >"see through" the mere acquisition of information as a boring, >low-level, machine-like task. The information that students >retain just long enough to give back to us on the examinations >is not necessarily the ultimate measure of the long-term value >of education (not that I'm sure what *is* that ultimate measure). >I'd like to be able to change their attitudes about science and >scientists, not just increase their storehouse of knowledge. and herein lies one of the weaknesses of an e-mail conference: the difficulty of expanding on a complex argument with only a few sentences. Sitting and chatting, live, in person, between sessions might be an easier way to develop these ideas, but here goes anyway. First, I understand and agree with Tom's points. Clearly, there's a lot more to learning than "the mere acquisition of information," as I tried to indicate in my caveat that there are a lot of implications to these definitions. Without question, the acquisition of information is not, in itself, education. Second, I think there's a hierarchy to be followed here. Science, in its highest and best operation, bases knowledge on facts ("information" if you wish). The humanities, in their highest and best opeation, base opinions on knowledge. Knowledge that is *not* based on the facts of the physical universe is not, in my opinion, scientific knowlege. Knowledge that is not based on the hard realities of our physical world may be useful, desirable, good, etc., but it is nonethless not scientific knowledge. (Again, e-mail is not the best way to develop this argument, but it's all we have at hand.) And opinion that is not based on sound understanding and knowledge of the matter at hand is . . . . well, let's just say that there are a lot of pejorative terms associated with it. Ergo, in my reasoning, the kinds of opinions I'd like to see my students espouse ought, in my own opinion, be based on sound understanding and knowlege; and when we come to the sciences, sound understanding and knowledge have to be based on the physical realities of the universe -- facts. In the absence of a reverence for facts we have pseudoscience, which does not lead to valid knowledge, understanding, or, in the end, opinions about science. And how does all this tie in with our Conference? Very nicely, if we recognize that in the Web and related technology we have a nice, new, exiting medium to work with in this quest for the highest and best in information, knowledge, and, finally, opinions. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@miami.edu Chemistry Department Phone: (305)-284-2174 University of Miami FAX: (305)-284-4571 Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA http://www.miami.edu/chm/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:12:32 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? Scott This is an excellent suggestion. I think it would work. My own experience with the non science courses is to use guided inquiry questions with videos to help students focus and pay attention. Sometimes they want to have parts of the tape replayed. Coupling this to a few minutes of class discussion to bring them all to closure helps too. I sometimes follow up with a two page paper on a related topic. In the pchem class the students especially liked the mathcad document that had animations and asked them to create their own animations. Now I have only 5-10 students so maybe that is not a large enough sample. So I must add that I observed the same interest in the students at the University of Wisconsin when I was visiting there. They liked animations to visualize concepts. They liked creating their own animations. It seems to me that being able to create a document that shows that one can do and understand is a key skill for assessing learning and for motivatin learning. Theresa At 10:40 AM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >Any ideas how to make the multimedia experience more active during class? > >Has anyone tried having students write a description of what they observed >(like a 1 minute paper) or using a video or animation as the basis of a >problem students work on in class? Maybe I should show a set of reactions >that demonstrate periodic trends and see if students can develop the >relationships. > >Respectfully, > >Scott Van Bramer Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:12:34 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: dr - The Emperor's New Computer? There have been article about this in Syllabus I think. Clearly some forms of technology do not work 'efficiently' On-line teaching of web skill may be one and literature searching another. I am sure there can identify still more examples. By efficiently I meant with a lap top and real time interaction in a classroom that is multimedia equipped. Perhaps I meant slick. I was vague and being vague may be what we need to identify strengths and weaknesses. This may lead us to an understanding of what we can do and are willing to do in our classes. At 08:45 AM 6/10/97 -0500, you wrote: >In this real-world context what does "information delivered efficiently" mean? >David >David Ritter >Department of Chemistry >Southeast Missouri State University >c617scc@semovm.semo.edu > Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:24:57 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - Presentation/learning/acquisition of information Carl, Would you elaborate a bit more. What you wrote sounds like we should emphasize facts. I agree that facts, observation in particular, are important. But surely there is more. The thinking mind longs to do more than collect facts, at least mine does. Striving for understanding, integrating new data into existing frameworks of knowing, and constructing new frameworks when the current one doesn't work is what I think is important. I think it is the act of doing that is important for me and for a student. This leads to what I think you are saying, that we must support opinion with sound argument and evidence based on observation. Where and how do we strike a balance? Theresa At 03:40 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >Ergo, in my reasoning, the kinds of opinions I'd like to see my students >espouse ought, in my own opinion, be based on sound understanding and >knowlege; and when we come to the sciences, sound understanding and >knowledge have to be based on the physical realities of the universe -- >facts. > > Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@miami.edu Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:28:56 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - The Emperor's New Computer? I'll wager further it is the animator who has more fun too! At 01:57 PM 6/10/97 EDT, you wrote: >simple measures might work. Take the animation of a >reaction mechanism, for instance. Who learns best from a >reaction simulation? I'll wager it's the animatator! So >why not give the kids a simple animation package and assign >them each a reaction to animate. Actually, I know why not - >they don't have the time and you don't have the computers. >But it's a thought, anyway. > >Tom >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Tom O'Haver Professor of Analytical Chemistry >University of Maryland Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry >College Park, MD 20742 Maryland Collaborative for Teacher Preparation >(301) 405-1831 to2@umail.umd.edu >FAX: (301) 314-9121 http://www.wam.umd.edu/~toh > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 15:09:03 -0700 From: Jim Diamond Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Scott Van Bramer wrote: > Has anyone tried having students write a description of what they observed > (like a 1 minute paper) or using a video or animation as the basis of a > problem students work on in class? Scott, I've taught a chemistry course aimed at non-science majors and an honors seminar titled "Science and Skepticism" - both courses used videos extensively. I think someone on THIS list made the suggestion several years ago that I give the students worksheets to accompany each video to keep the students focused without slipping into "TV mode." I've tried this approach, and it really works. I've written my own worksheets by viewing the video pretty carefully, and picking out a key concept or fact every three minutes or so through the tape, and building a question out of that narrow topic. I encourage you to try this approach. Hope this helps, Best Wishes, Jim Diamond, chair Chemistry Department Linfield College jimd@calvin.linfield.edu McMinnville OR 97128 (503)-434-2471 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:53:57 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: ROP - Re: Paper 1 - SVB: Time and Content On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, reeves wrote: snip > The single biggest obstacle to this vision is lack of readily > accessible, high quality multimedia materials. We need a source of > copyright-restriction free files, available to anyone to be used in any > context (except to make a profit from its resale). Actually there is a source of public domain materials that few think about. By definition, anything produced by the Federal Government and made public is PD. This means that anything created by the US government on a Federal Government WWW or FTP site is fair game even for profit. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:08:32 -0400 From: scott donnelly Subject: Re: svb -The Emperor's New Computer? Dr. Van Bramer asked the following: "Has anyone tried having students write a description of what they observed (like a 1 minute paper) or using a video or animation as the basis of a problem students work on in class? Maybe I should show a set of reactions that demonstrate periodic trends and see if students can develop the relationships." Yes. I do this almost every day as my lectures (typical class size = ~40 students) are heavily dependent on in-class, real-time demonstrations. Oftentimes we as educators do not take advantage of the fact that all the senses are involved in learning. I'll never forget the deafening noise that resulted when one of my professors dropped a small weight on a mixture of red phosphorus and potassium chlorate. The demonstrations are mostly live, but sometimes I show clips with the sound muted from the World of Chemistry video series (The Annenberg/CPM Collection, 1 800 LEARNER) produced by the University of Maryland and the Educational Film Center. Other times I use clips from the videodisc that comes with the adopted textbook. Every now and then I even have students help me perform the demo. Usually there is no shortage of volunteers. I provide students only with the minimal amount of info that they need to answer intelligently but wouldn't have gotten from the demo itself. I then give students ~3 minutes to formulate a scientific explanation based on what they saw, heard, smelled, etc. After collecting the papers (no names required) I use ~5 minutes to read some of the explanations to the class and have the students comment on the validity of the explanation. Misconceptions are then corrected and, in addition, students are introduced to a real-life scenario, i.e. having one's work critiqued, albeit anonymously. Yes, some students don't like this, but it's an accurate representation of the real world and how science is done. I do this exercise in both my intro and general chem classes. I cross-pollinate the chemistry demos with those from physics as well because my overall objective is to teach students to draw reasonable (not necessarily the 'correct') conclusions from observations and also from previously learned ideas, principles, etc. At first some students may see this as entertainment, but judging from their end-of-semester comments about the class and this exercise in particular most recognize the importance of what I'm trying to do, appreciate it, and learn from it. I am the only full-time chemistry faculty in the department. My school is a rural community college. Yes, it's sometimes time-consuming (so are computer presentations which I do as well) to put together all the materials for the demo, but I have built shelves adjacent to the lecture hall that have all the materials ready to go and in the proper amounts. I have not done any quantification of learning from these exercises (sorry, I'm a bit lazy most of the time). But I do know they work with my students. I encourage chemical educators to do real-time demos in lecture if they aren't already. I've never found a student asleep during a live demo, although I have found many a student asleep during my computer presentations. I'm always interested in learning about new demos. If you have any that you would like to share, then I'd be more than willing to try them out. Thanks for your patience and time. Cheers!! Scott D. Scott Donnelly Professor of Chemistry Arizona Western College Yuma, AZ 85366-0929 email: aw_donnelly@awc.cc.az.us phone: 520 344 7590 I never came upon any of my discoveries through the process of rational thinking. -Albert Einstein ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:08:02 -0400 From: "Richard O. Pendarvis" Subject: Re: Assessment of Technology in the Classroom On Tue, 10 Jun 1997, Timothy L. Pickering wrote: > Assessing the effectivess of new education technologies, curricula, > teaching methods, etc. is always a difficult and hotly debated issue. Did > the students do better because of the new educational hot button here>, or did they do better because you paid more > attention to them, or because this year's class was above average, etc.? > The issue will certainly come up over and over again in this conference. > From some of the postings that have already appeared, I am beginning to > discern an interesting new trend in some of the rhetoric used to "justify" > the use of technology in the classroom. The approach turns the assessment > issue on it head. If I remember correctly, the "placebo" effect is fairly well documented in the literature. I think it is called the Hawthorn effect or something. Anyway, Timothy has hit the nail. Assesment is the key. It is in fact a multipurpose tool. We use assesment to motivate, measure, (hopefully) teach, define our curriculum, and even diagnose and council. Assesment is sort of like the old Swiss army knife. We need to be careful with sharp tools. Any use of multimedia or CAI without a reinforcing and motivating assesment will not reach its potential. Most students these days have no interest in anything unless they can see a direct relationship to their grades. /* Richard */ #include - - ____ | | _ | | Organic Chemistry / \ |_| | | || CAI Programming / \ | | / \ || Pizza / \ / \ | | _||_ Star Trek (_________) (_____) |______| _/____\_ Doberman Pinschers --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Richard Pendarvis, Ph.D. 3001 W. College Road | | Associate Professor of Chemistry Ocala, FL 32608 | | Central Florida Community College EMAIL: afn02809@afn.org | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 19:03:50 -0400 From: "Carl H. Snyder" Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - Presentation/learning/acquisition of information >Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: >Would you elaborate a bit more. What you wrote sounds like we should >emphasize facts. I agree that facts, observation in particular, are >important. But surely there is more. The thinking mind longs to do more No, I'm not suggesting that facts or observations ought to be emphasized to the exclusion of the model that the facts or observations lead to, or the process by which the model itself is developed. But without the facts or observations, there's simply no model. I think that teaching the model without revealing some of the facts and observations that force us to that particular model, that show how we got to it, does a disservice to the student. "Aha!," someone might now say, "but let's not teach the model, let's let students *discover* the model for themselves." OK, say I. Now, please, just show me how to get students to discover the model of the nuclear atom without having them repeat Rutherford's experiment. Perhaps we should not present the nuclear model to students at all, but instead describe Rutherford's experiment and ask the students what conclusion this leads them to, thus allowing them to construct the nuclear model for themsleves. Fine, but then doesn't this transfer of information (about Rutherford's experiment) from the teacher to the student simply serve to illustrate my defintion of teaching: the transfer of facts or information from the teacher to the learner? I have no problem at all with the idea that students learn by constructing models themselves. But where do they get the materials from which to carry out the construction? >than collect facts, at least mine does. Striving for understanding, >integrating new data into existing frameworks of knowing, and constructing >new frameworks when the current one doesn't work is what I think is >important. I think it is the act of doing that is important for me and for Important? I'd say that's everything! >a student. This leads to what I think you are saying, that we must support >opinion with sound argument and evidence based on observation. Where and >how do we strike a balance? It couldn't have been said better, Theresa. That's exactly what I'm arguing for. "Sound argument and evidence based on observation" is the key. But what do you mean by "Where and how do we strike a balance?" Strike a balance with what? What's on the other side of the fulcrum that has to be balanced? I guess that's the piece of the puzzle I'm missing. Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@miami.edu Chemistry Department Phone: (305)-284-2174 University of Miami FAX: (305)-284-4571 Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA http://www.miami.edu/chm/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 17:40:50 -0700 From: Trent Nordmeyer Subject: Re: Paper 1+:Technology and Student Learning I'm interested to hear you out. Send any applicable info my way. Thanks. Trent At 10:58 AM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: > My comment, or perhaps question, is whether teachers should continue to >spend time and resources on developing new presentation media before they >have ascertained what is missing in the current methodology - that if >corrected would help the students succeed? > Bert Ramsay, Emeritus Professor of Chemistry, Eastern Michigan >University > ================== > > During the past 8 years I personally have taken a different approach by >focusing on the development of student learning tools. I would be pleased >to share more with you, but I would need permission from the conference >coordinator to do so - to minimize the flaming I might receive from some of >you that might perceive such comments as a "commercial" message. > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:45:27 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: tjz- paper1 - time question Hi Scott I am reviewing some of your answers and reflecting on your paperand the correspondence associated with it, a nice thing to do after dinner. Your materials are very well thought out and finely executed. You clearly explain many things in your paper describing your work. To put this into context, once again perhaps, how many students do you have? and how large a campus is your university. The number of computers sound about double what we have at Niagara in general purpose computer labs. In pchem my students have access to two networked pc's and mine if need be to make three. Tell me, how many hours per week do you devote to computer development of materials for your classes? I know you spent a summer to start, but realistically how many hours per week do you spend now? I think you have been at this for a few years now and have amassed a broad base of skills and experience. So it is easier for you than for a beginner. Just to put this into perspective, last semester a colleague quiped - "anyone can create a web page". I almost passed out considering the work I did to create my little contribution. The other thing I was wondering about is how can some of us find the time to do this? Dave Brooks addressed this issue in 1993. I know we just need to work evenings and weekends but this is not the same as writing lecture notes 15 years ago. Unlike paper and chalk and the blackboard, the web and web tools are dynamically changing tools. It is a moving medium. What's a lady to do? You really don't need to answer that.. Cheers Theresa Oh yes, perhaps there could be a startup kit for a chemistry professor to buy to set up the minimum teaching environment on the web - low cost of course - tweakable by the prof or upgradable for a price. Afterall I can't have my students going to your university to download your documents, or is this how it is done.... (I think this was prompted by the excellent post from Linda Sweeting who described her Ethics course.) Just musing here in Buffalo. hmm... perhaps that is what the Chemistry Place will do.... hmm Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:45:29 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? more musings Dear Colleagues It seems that teaching and learning are inextricably intertwined. It further seems that teaching is defined in part by making pone's own expertise available to others. I can see how presentations in what ever form we schoose to use ( book, technology, chalk talks, writing paers etc. is how expertise is transmitted from the experienced user to the less experienced users. Learning on the other hand seems a bit more difficult for me to pin down. I know when I have successfully learned something. After successful learning I can permform a task, dosplay a skill, or use a concept that I was not able to use before. So now apply this to my students. I know that they have learned by their behavior in laboratory, or as expressed in writing, or by attitudes I see developing in class. This is a personal assessment - possible classified as, ugh, only annecdotal. As Scott pointed out we can listen for the silence or as I may add observe the action. This raises the important issue of assessment. It is not enough to do what makes us happy or what seems to make our students happy. Real concrete assessment is necessary. But how do we do this. I have 5 students in pchem. Scott has about 50 in his intro class. We clearly can't have a control group with these numbers. I wonder if another kind of assessment is possible. If we articulate our objectives for a particular lesson and then measure how students have met this objective then we have an assessment that may permit us to cycle back and improve the tool on the next iteration. Such assessment can be as simple as one or two questions and can include self assessment to help students grow in this way too. I have heard David Hanson from Stony Brook describe this as part of his NSF funded workshop approach to teaching recitation classes. Unfortunately I don't think he is on this list. I guess we will need to wait for him to publish his results. Cheers Theresa Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 20:07:04 -0500 From: sc18 Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? more musings You might consider my paper in J Chem. Ed., 1997, March issue, p. 354 on Meta Tasks... I consider some of what you are saying their with a lot of Polanyi's philosophy of Knowing and Being. You sound as though we have thought alike, though independently. Sincerely, Ken Fountain ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:18:56 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: Assessment of Technology in the Classroom This is interesting, after writing a bit about assessment 20 email messages land on my computer and several talk about assessment. An interesting observation, Richard wrote about what I have heard Sheila Tobias mention in lectures, namely that students are interested in the bottom line, the grade. an anecdote puts this in perspective. I had 100 percent return on a self assessment form at the end of the semester simply because 50 points were attached to it. Most of the forms were well crafted and as Carl pointed out they supported their self assessment with samples of their class work and sound reasoning. Tim is right we need to focus on assessment but not get cut by it. So how do we do this? Theresa At 07:08 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: >Anyway, Timothy has hit the nail. Assesment is the key. It is in fact a >multipurpose tool. We use assesment to motivate, measure, (hopefully) >teach, define our curriculum, and even diagnose and council. Assesment is >sort of like the old Swiss army knife. We need to be careful with sharp >tools. > >Any use of multimedia or CAI without a reinforcing and motivating assesment >will not reach its potential. Most students these days have no interest in >anything unless they can see a direct relationship to their grades. > > /* Richard */ Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:18:59 -0400 From: Theresa Julia Zielinski Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - Presentation/learning/acquisition of information Carl, This is the frustration of non face to face communication. What do I mean by balance, well I guess between lecture and group work, presentation and discovery, assessment and forging ahead, guided inquirery and lecture, the list goes on. I guess I am more full of questions and not too many answers. It must come from not enough time to do everything as well as I would like and yet seeing some success and recognizing areas for improvement cycling back each time. How do we refine thinking on these topics to permit a vision of the quality in a pencil and paper presentation at a dinner table and a multimedia presentation in a fully equipped lecture theater. How much should a student be asked to do, ..... so many questions. I liked TOH low tech classroom. I can relate to that. I liked Scotts work and wished I had opportunity to do that. My balance will be toward the TOH model with my students doing the tech stuff at the computer in groups. Again the idea of balance, trying to capture the best of several pedagogical strategies with the resources and equipment at hand. Thanks to a fine professioanl learning community, one that includes George Long, Marcy Hamby Towns, Deb Sauder, and Roland Stout, and colleagues at other campuses who donated Mathcad documents my pchem students have learning materials and opportunities that I could not produce alone in a reasonable amount of time. Thanks Carl Theresa At 07:03 PM 6/10/97 -0400, you wrote: > >>a student. This leads to what I think you are saying, that we must support >>opinion with sound argument and evidence based on observation. Where and >>how do we strike a balance? > >It couldn't have been said better, Theresa. That's exactly what I'm >arguing for. "Sound argument and evidence based on observation" is the >key. But what do you mean by "Where and how do we strike a balance?" >Strike a balance with what? What's on the other side of the fulcrum that >has to be balanced? I guess that's the piece of the puzzle I'm missing. > > Carl H. Snyder Internet: CSNYDER@miami.edu > Chemistry Department Phone: (305)-284-2174 > University of Miami FAX: (305)-284-4571 > Coral Gables, FL 33124 USA http://www.miami.edu/chm/ > Theresa Julia Zielinski Professor of Chemistry Department of Chemistry Niagara University Niagara University, NY 14109 theresaz@localnet.com http://www.niagara.edu/~tjz/ 716-639-0762 (H - voice, voice mail and fax) 716-286-8257 (O - voice and voice mail) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:49:10 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Re: GRL: Re:- The Emperor's New Computer?-but everybodies buying At 08:59 6/10/97 -0400, George Shalhoub wrote: >I tend to agree with some of the comments made by Tom Kenney. Although I >have not had problems with Acrobat, I can understand his frustration of >having to get it, load it, and learn how it works. It seems to me that many >times we use technology for the sake of technology. As the day winds down, I would like to add one more take on this. Learning how to download and install software is like learning how to use a tool. If you want to do a certain job, you learn how to use the tool. No need to learn how to use a hammer, until you have some nails to drive. This conference can provide that incentive. After learning how to use this tool, however, it is rather useful. Maybe part of the problem is that for the tools we are using here, the function and utility are still not quite known. So when you use one of these tools the first time, it is easy to be dissapointed with what you find. But after you have learned to use this tool, you are likely to find it is quite handy. Now you do things you had not previously thought possible. With Acrobat I can view documents I would be willing to spend hours in the library to find. Now just a few clicks away (while drinking coffee with my feet up). As an author I can take a complex document in an program and generate an acrobat document as easily as sending it to a printer. So for anyone who felt frustrated with a plugin that they installed, here are a few Acrobat gems: JACS and other ACS Journals (YES, you can print out a "reprint" in the comfort of your office. Search for any papers of interest without reading the entire TOC and then get the full article including figures and supplemental material. With greater quality than any photocopy.) http://pubs.acs.org/journals/jrnhome.html NIST Publications (like all the details of the SI system of units. Every conversion factor you could imagin to as many significant digits as are known. WOW, I could spend a lifetime writing questions with all this information! They also have thermodynamic and kinetic data and lots more.) http://physics.nist.gov/Pubs/SP811/contents.short.html And lots more. Hopefully this conference will prompt all of us to learn how to use some new tools. At this time, I would defend my browser as tenaciously as my library card. These tools are worth learning how to use. The Web is a fantastic resource that can open up new worlds to you and to your students. And the resources that do more than a textbook, require more than HTML. And if that is not enough motivation, the students are catching on really fast. Two years ago it was rare for a student to use the web. A year ago it was novel. Last week I worked with a group of inner city middle school students who took it for granted. Well, that is my take on this. It has certainly been an enjoyable couple of days. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 23:52:24 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: paper1 - SVB: RE: TJZ time question At 20:45 6/10/97 -0400, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: >To put this into >context, once again perhaps, how many students do you have? and how large a >campus is your university. The number of computers sound about double what >we have at Niagara in general purpose computer labs. In pchem my students >have access to two networked pc's and mine if need be to make three. I typically have about 50 students per semester in general chemistry. 3-10 students in assorted upper division courses (advanced spectroscopy, instrumental analysis and environmental analysis). Widener has a total of about 800 undergraduate students in A&S and about 200 in the engineering program. There is also a large population in other schools to produce a rather unusual mix. According to the Widener Web Page this includes: 2,350 day (undergraduate) 2,000 evening (undergraduate) 2,100 graduate, non-law 2,200 School of Law For comparison to other schools, most of the competition for computer resources on campus is from the day undergraduate students. So they have pretty good access, but this is an ongoing struggle. Students in the upper division chemistry courses, have excellent access. We have a special chemistry computer lab with three computers (the front half of my office was walled off for this). Students have keys for 24 hour access, so a senior chemistry major can always get on a computer. >Tell me, how many hours per week do you devote to computer development of >materials for your classes? I know you spent a summer to start, but >realistically how many hours per week do you spend now? OH, you want the real answer...... This is kind of tough, since it tends to expand to fill any available time. On a "slim" week when I just take my lecture notes from last year and converting them into HTML and manage to make a couple of administrative changes this could be only 3 hours. But it is a bit difficult to distinguish when I am doing computer stuff and when I am developing my lectures since they are intertwined. On a typical week, I will spend Sunday (possibly 10 hours) generating lecture notes for the week (3-4 hours of general chemistry lectures). This involves finding appropriate video and animation clips, writing problems to use in class, and working on solutions. During the week I will spend another half hour fine tuning each lecture. However, on a week when I have some "wonderful" ideas and am really developing a substantial amount of content or pulling together a wide range of resources. I will spend my evenings and a couple of full days at the office working on this. During a week like this it is not uncommon for me to spend 30 to 40 hours in front of the computer doing something related to a class web page. Also, a lot of this time was experimenting with different ideas to find effective techniques and learn what is possible. My primary motive for writing this paper was to share some of these ideas and to get some feedback about them. >I think you have >been at this for a few years now and have amassed a broad base of skills >and experience. So it is easier for you than for a beginner. Just to put >this into perspective, last semester a colleague quiped - "anyone can >create a web page". I almost passed out considering the work I did to >create my little contribution. Yes, there certainly is a learning curve involved here. I have been working on resources that have lead up to what I am doing now since I started teaching 5 years ago. Some decisions (like taking the time to work out lecture notes in a word processor or to use mathcad for solving problems) have paid off very well. And this made it much easier for me to accomplish what I did in the past year. Hopefully I will be able to continue building on this. I will not try and kid myself that it is now done and it is unlikely that the technology will slow down. So I will probably continue to try new things that I think will improve my teaching. I am very fortunate to have a supportive administration and encouraging colleagues. Your colleague is probably right that "anyone can create a web page". But it would also be true that "anyone can paint a picture". With the interest and the tools, it is possible. At the most basic level, creating a web page is just pushing a different button in a word processor. Rather than print, you generate HTML. However, putting together something that is also useful and easy to use.... That is an entirely different point. The other part of this is that it is only easy after you do it. I spent an entire day trying to figure out the first web page I created. And it was not impressive. I also spent a two days trying to figure out how to create frames. Now, after a lot of hard work, I can do these things in my sleep. So part of the question is if you want to invest the time and effort into learning how. Of course this is not in a vacuum. There are other things going on in the world and we all have to decide what is the most productive way to use our time. P.S. I think your web page is great. And the Mathcad documents there... Great content. >The other thing I was wondering about is how can some of us find the time >to do this? Dave Brooks addressed this issue in 1993. I know we just need >to work evenings and weekends but this is not the same as writing lecture >notes 15 years ago. Unlike paper and chalk and the blackboard, the web and >web tools are dynamically changing tools. It is a moving medium. What's a >lady to do? YUP! But maybe that is a good thing. If they keep changing, I won't fall into the trap of having yellowed lecture notes..... Although I expect I will fall into my own traps.. >You really don't need to answer that.. ;-) >Oh yes, perhaps there could be a startup kit for a chemistry professor to >buy to set up the minimum teaching environment on the web - low cost of >course - tweakable by the prof or upgradable for a price. Afterall I can't >have my students going to your university to download your documents, or is >this how it is done.... I can only speak for myself. But anyone is welcome to use the material I have posted on the web. That is part of why I place it there (might as well get some milage out of that effort, and Widener pays me enough to take care of my beat up old sailboat). If I don't want anyone outside Widener to use something, I set the server to send a "Permission Denied" message for any requests off campus (So far this is just for copyrighted material that I only have permission to use locally). For the "ethics", I would be upset if someone plagiarized my work but not if they use it. There are some packages being developed that use an easy front end to generate a basic web page for a course. See web course in a box (mentioned by Tom Chasteen) at: http://unx1.shsu.edu/wcb/ Similar tools are under development at other locations. I recall seeing something at the University of North Carolina? Something like this could be a great way to get started. Also publishers are starting to develop web sites to accompany text books. Maybe someday a web site will come with the text, just like we now can get transparencies and test banks. This could help with the organization, since the site could be keyed to the textbook. >(I think this was prompted by the excellent post >from Linda Sweeting who described her Ethics course.) Just musing here in >Buffalo. hmm... perhaps that is what the Chemistry Place will do.... hmm It would certainly be nice if this happened. And there is enough quality content on the web to keep a student busy for several lifetimes. I think the biggest problem, however, is organization and evaluation of this content. Something like the Chemistry Place could do this. But I don't yet know how. It must be an interesting time to be in the publishing business. Well, I guess it is now time for me to sign off. Thanks to everyone for the enjoyable discussion and the great ideas. I am looking forward to the discussions of the next papers. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram -------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:20:29 +0100 From: Hugh Cartwright Subject: Re: Paper 1: TOH - The Emperor's New Computer? Tom writes: > "Information ... presented through computer simulations" > suggests that student are just sitting there watching the > *results* of somebody else's computer simulation. That might > put me to sleep, too... Yes, a simulation shown as a video is no different from a clip of film. It is, of course, not inherently any more effective because it has been computer-generated. > technology has encouraged me to develop ........ > interactive, real-time, rule-based simulations where the > students control the parameters and observe the results of > their selections. In an important way, there experiences > are less passive that just watching something organized > by someone else. What is more, the students can pursue routes through the simulations and investigate the behaviour of the system simulated in ways which I, as an instructor, might not have anticipated. A simulation presented in a lecture takes a course pre-determined by the lecturer. A simulation under the control of a student has far greater potential for enhancing understanding. (Unfortunately, there is also far greater potential for time-watsing by the student, but that's another story...) Hugh Dr Hugh Cartwright Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory Oxford University, England hugh@muriel.pcl.ox.ac.uk http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/~hmc Tel (UK) 1865 275 400 (reception) (UK) 1865 275 483 (direct) FAX (UK) 1865 275 410 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 08:57:02 +0000 From: DeGennaro-Al Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? <<<>New technologies provide instructors with impressive new >capabilities for teaching. and that students want > the material delivered clearly and >directly, and are only willing to invest extra time if this will produce >significantly improved results. > I agree with the questions posed by Prof. Zielinski. I have found that HS students are decidedly unimpressed with passive multimedial TV, and their scores reflect that. On the contrary, they have responded well to active simulations such as Logal, showing good understanding in class discussions and on test questions. I've not done this enough to get a definite conclusion as to how much more effective this might be than a teacher presentation, but it certainly engages them more, and they complete the tasks faster than I anticipate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:56:01 -0400 From: George Shalhoub Subject: Re: GRL: Re:- The Emperor's New Computer?-but everybodies buying Scott, Thanks fro your comments. I will try those sites. I suppose that I was using Acrobat as a reader and found that I can read better from real paper. I was not aware of some of the other uses you pointed out. Is Dave Arnold still there? I taught at Widener about 20 years ago. Sincerely, George ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:58:41 -0400 From: Scott Van Bramer Subject: Re: GRL: Re:- The Emperor's New Computer?-but everybodies buying George, Dave Arnold is still teaching (his address is: arnold@pop1.science.widener.edu). I hope that you find some of these sites useful. If not there are more. I certainly agree that it is easier to read from real paper. I think the advantage is in the distribution, using this lowers the bariers for publication (of course this increases the noise level). If I have a long document, I read enough of it on the computer to see if I am really interested. If so I usually print it out. I have found it useful for distributing a variety of different resources to my students and to others. At 09:56 6/11/97 -0400, you wrote: >Thanks fro your comments. I will try those sites. I suppose that I was >using Acrobat as a reader and found that I can read better from real paper. >I was not aware of some of the other uses you pointed out. Respectfully, Scott Van Bramer Department of Chemistry Widener University, Chester, PA 19013 svanbram@science.widener.edu http://science.widener.edu/~svanbram ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:10:01 -0400 From: Bert Ramsay Subject: Re: Paper 1+:Technology and Student Learning Trent: I have developed a "chemical calculator". To respond to the objections of some teachers who do not want their students to use it because it would make it too "easy" and they wouldn't know how to solve the problems on paper and pencil - I have developed a "Personal Tutor". Will be released later this summer. I will send you information if I have your mailing address. To see what it's about: http:www.BizServe.com/c3 Bert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 13:10:08 -0500 From: "Dr. David Ritter" Subject: dr: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? more musings At 08:45 PM 6/10/97 -0400, Theresa Julia Zielinski wrote: > >....... >This raises the important issue of assessment. It is not enough to do what >makes us happy or what seems to make our students happy. Real concrete >assessment is necessary. But how do we do this. I have 5 students in pchem. >Scott has about 50 in his intro class. We clearly can't have a control >group with these numbers. > I have lost the reference, but didn't Joe Casanova publish a study a few years ago on using multimedia presentations and all of the good stuff in organic chemistry classes, which found very positive feedback from students, but very low assessment results? Does anyone have the reference to this that they would share with me? David David Ritter Department of Chemistry Southeast Missouri State University c617scc@semovm.semo.edu ------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 11:09:36 -0400 From: Theresa Zielinski Subject: tjz paper 2 Re: Assessment of Technology in the Classroom This brings the focus for assessment to a fine point. Has the student learned something? Is that something worth learning? How do we get the students to recognize that something is worth learning (beyond the grade or the potential for acceptance to medical school, etc)? I think that clear goals and objectives are needed for each lesson (tech lessons too), and that these goals and objectives should be clearly articulated for the students as part of a sylabus or module of instruction. If we do not do this then we run the risk of transforming the status quo to all of our new method and tools of instruction. Now I am on this journey of goals and objectives and I have a long way to go to get them into all of my lessons as I balance multiple tasks and interests. What do all of you think about this? I just finished reading a book called "The Goal" by Goldratt If the business metaphore operates in education the perhaps the lack of a clear goal prevents us from optimizing the process to obtain greater success. An interesting speculation. I wonder what others think? > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:44:31 -0700 From: Walter Volland Subject: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? more musings Unfortunately I don't have the reference that you were thinking of, but I have done a great deal with my students and computer use. I think the issue is centered on how computers are used in the class. If the computer helps students do something they couldn't do before or clarifies a concept beyond what reading, numerical exercises, lectures, and discussions could do. Substitution of a computer for a hand calculator may be good if the students still have the abiity to do the underlying math on their own. If the computer erodes the fundmental skills because the student no longer learns what is going on then the computer use is questionable. I use computer activities in all my classes. I use multimedia presentations in all my classes when there is a pedigocical benefit. The intangible benifit of giving students an exposure to computer applications in chemistry and a taste of the limittions of computers is immensely important. They need to learn early on that computers are only as useful and accurate as the applications/software. They need to learn that modelling is only as good as the ssumptions made in the model. My students aren't necessarily "happy" to use computers. In fact many are resentful of having to use a tool beyond the traditional text and lecture. The small group issue really doesn't count. The increased efficiency doesn't matter either. If we all ran around doing cost benefit analyses on what we do in chemical education ther would be a tremendous amount of pruning possible. What really counts is whether or not our students are able to grasp ideas better because of the way material is presented. Computers are a tool to help reach this goal. There are excellent programs available for pmr spectra, ir simulation, moleculare modelling, etc. I firmly believe that chemistry students need to see 20th and 21st century technology applications in chemistry applied when they add value. I do not want to see gratuitous computer use. The present rash of CD-ROM materials includes a gret deal of trash and inaccurate material. Walt Volland Bellevue Community College wvolland@bcc.ctc.edu voice 425-641-2467 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 14:43:36 -0500 From: sc18 Subject: Re: dr: Re: tjz - The Emperor's New Computer? more musings Hi, I cite their paper in J. Chem. Ed., 1994,vol.71, 938. Sincerely, Ken Fountain ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 12:59:20 -0700 From: Walter Volland Subject: Re: tjz paper 2 Re: Assessment of Technology in the Classroom The idea that there is an ultimate arbiter who can decide what is worth learning is a red flag to me. I agree that there are fundamental concepts needed for continued progress in chemistry, but we don' t want to set limits on learning. We want to open doors for students not set limits. The education process should be geared to maximize curiosity and inquiry. The student should be encourged to learn way beyond wht we identify as core material. The setting of objectives is essential for successful teaching. If there aren't any clear reasons for studying a topic, the value of the content should be suspect. Everything we teach in chemistry must have a rationale to support its place in the curriculum. This is true for anything done in a class. If we are going to do assesment we have to know what we wanted to teach in the first place. Walt Volland Bellevue Community College wvolland@bcc.ctc.edu voice 425-641-2467 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 16:07:46 -0500 From: George Long Subject: Paper 2: GRL: Should students learn how to create multimedia? Recently, there were several comments by Tom O'Haver, and Hugh Cartwright concerning student interaction, and creation of, simulations. Tom raised the question of who learns the most from simulations, and answered , quite correctly, in my opinion, that the person who creates the simulation learns the most. However, the followup question and answer were dissapointing to me. Why not have the students create simulations ?? answer: not enough time or computers available . hmmm, seems we've stumbled on something good, but are avoiding it because it is too hard. I would argue, that programing (whatever level, spread sheet, mathcad, etc), and creating multimedia are an important communication device that our STUDENTS (yes, I'm yelling) should be USING, not watching. As Scott V.B. said earlier, learning HTML is not hard, creating useful HTML is hard. The process of deciding how to arrange information is an important learning process. It seems worth fighting the logistics problems. Lastly, Its not clear what level of ability our future students will have with computers. Generally, I find that our freshman are much better than our Seniors in using computing technology, so in a short time there has been quite a bit of change in our students abilities, perhaps, given the right tools, it won't be so time consuming for students to create simulations for example, and perhaps it won't be long before our students all have their own computer. Will we be ready for them ?? **************************************************************************** George R Long, Ph.D. Department of Chemistry, Indiana University of Pennsylvania Indiana, PA 15705 grlong@grove.iup.edu, http://www.iup.edu/~grlong/ Technology has made the world a neighborhood, now it is up to us to make it a brotherhood - Dr. M.L. King **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 15:25:04 -0500 From: Sylvia Esjornson Subject: Re: paper #1 looking at multimedia Michael Chejlava wrote: "It seems to me that the most important thing that we can do is to motivate students into returning to their childhood state of being natural learners. This condition has been lost to so many due to parental and peer pressures and has been beat out of them by an educational system which stresses getting the "right answer" to the rote questions." This comment is an extension of the comment I made about having students make side by side comparisons of graphs from related experiments. In using animations and video demos, I present side by side comparisons to rehearse the students in distinguishing and differentiating. I find that students don't see what an animation is showing until I ask them how and why the next animation is both the same and different. In an informal survey, I have found that students do not attatch importance to relative ranking or related rates unless guided to do so. They are very bewildered when they find out that there are two correct answers to the question "True or False: Sodium is like potassium." I began my response with the quote from Michael Chejlava because it has been my experience that children like to play at games that involve making up what goes together. I contend they process a good deal of information when they play at deciding who gets which toy and why or when the set out toys two by two when playing alone. (In Bloom's taxonomy, cataloging would be a higher order thinking skill.) Back to the multimedia: As our newly adopted text comes with a CD glued to the back of it, I have been asking myself, what is the role of the teacher? I find that guided inquiry is the answer for me. Multimedia tools help me guide that inquiry because I can show first one demo or model, then the other, then the first one again, back and forth as many times as is necessary without generating any hazardous waste or even donning my safety glasses. Sylvia Esjornson, Ph.D. Chemist Assistant Professor of Chemistry Southwestern Oklahoma State University 100 Campus Drive, Weatherford OK 73096 esjorns@swosu.edu (405) 774-7032